How Leafwell is Disrupting Healthcare: The Data Doctors Can’t Ignore ft. Emily Fisher & Dr June Chin

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Bryan Fields: What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I'm Bryan Fields, and with me as always is Kellan Finney. This week we've got two very special guests, Emily Fisher and Dr. June Chin. Ladies, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today? Emily Fisher: Really good. It's great to be here. Dr. June Chin: Excited to be here and doing really great. Thank you for having us. We've been looking forward to this all week. Bryan Fields: Yeah, us as well. Kellan, how are you doing? Kellan Finney: Doing really well. Really excited to talk to Emily, really excited to talk to Dr. Chin. I know they mentioned earlier, when we were chatting, that they both have a very fond spot in their heart for the West Coast, so I'm excited to pull that out. How are you doing, Bryan? Bryan Fields: Yeah, I'm stoked. First off, that's a reach — I don't think they actually said that. They said they both used to be West Coast people, that was the words. I think the part for me that's really exciting is, Emily, we got a chance to link up at Benzinga a while back, and right away Kellan and I were stoked about the opportunity to see what you were doing and dive really deep. I think it was difficult for us to wait, and we're really excited to bring this to our listeners today. So before we dive in, we do have a little East Coast/West Coast battle, and ladies, we've got to put you on the map — East Coast or West Coast, which one are you choosing? Emily Fisher: East Coast for me. Dr. June Chin: Yeah, I would say East Coast too. I'm a New Yorker — I grew up in the Bronx, so I'm still an East Coaster. Let the record reflect. Bryan Fields: So before we dive in, can you give our listeners a little background about yourself and how you found your way into the cannabis space? Emily Fisher: Sure, I'm happy to go first. I founded Leafwell almost five and a half years ago, but my cannabis journey started about three years before that. I began working with medical cannabis patients in California in early 2016. Back then there was no legal framework for cannabis in the UK at all, so when I was asked to go work with medical cannabis patients, I had to be convinced, if I'm honest — they had to twist my arm a little bit. But then I got over there and saw the impact cannabis had on hundreds of people's lives. I think it was after the first call I had with a patient — I couldn't believe we were talking about the same thing I had grown up hearing about. I also then became a cannabis patient myself. I had breast cancer at the age of 26 and had about thirteen surgeries afterward, and I used cannabis instead of pain medication. I can go into that more at another time, but it was essentially both my personal experience as a cannabis patient, and what I saw of the impact cannabis had on so many other patients, that really inspired Leafwell. We set out five and a half years ago to increase access, education, and research. I realized as a patient that we were just scratching the surface of what this plant could do for people — for patients — in terms of giving them options to support their healing, and that we needed to increase access, increase education, and increase research. Particularly because I come into this through the lens of a patient, I understand that if you go off the care plan your doctor's given you, you're going to be digging into research. Research is essential — you're going to be concerned about contraindications, about side effects, if you're already trying to heal yourself. So those are the three pillars we set out with five and a half years ago, and they still stand true today. I'm excited to share more about how we've evolved as an organization, but that's how I came into cannabis. Dr. June Chin: Yeah, I also started as a patient. I grew up on the East Coast, but I went to medical school in San Francisco, California. Shortly after medical cannabis was legalized there, I was a patient before I became a physician. I have an autoimmune disease of the spine called ankylosing spondylitis — basically your spine starts to deteriorate and fuse on itself, so you lose mobility, and most patients with AS go on disability quite early. I happened to be in the right place at the right time. One of my attendings, who was an HIV/AIDS physician, knew I had AS. I was treating his patients with marijuana at the time, and he basically said, "Look, if you continue on this route, you're not going to finish medical school. You're probably going to hit disability quite early. But you should try something called marijuana." And that changed the trajectory of my life. When I tried it, and saw the patients with HIV and AIDS that he was helping, I decided to dedicate my career to helping patients understand the plant and how to integrate it with their conventional medication and healthcare, so they could get the best of both worlds. Bryan Fields: I love it. Kellan Finney: One of the biggest challenges I'm envisioning is that when you're starting off on that journey trying to understand the capabilities and the medical research of the plant, where's the first step? There's so much to cover and so much unknown. Is it a targeted approach — you understand a condition and go from there — or is it more that you put everything into categories and try to hit them one at a time? Dr. June Chin: I think the beauty of alternative medicine and natural medicine is that it helps patients become more active in their own healthcare journey. So, like myself and like Emily, when you go to your health provider and they don't understand something, you really need to look at the research and educate yourself about other ways you can apply alternative medicine. I think that's what Leafwell has done over the last five years — it helps patients from all walks of life, whether you're cannabis-naive and have no idea if or how cannabis can help you, or you're more experienced, we can give you the tools to talk to your health provider in a more educated way. Emily Fisher: Absolutely, and maybe what I'll add to that is we set out initially just to ask and learn — to find out from people why they wanted to use cannabis, whether they'd used it before, how long, what medication they were on, the severity of their symptoms. We set out just to listen and collect that patient-reported feedback. But now we're in a position where we're operational in 38 states. We see over a million people on our website every month, and we facilitate over 15,000 patients across all these different jurisdictions. People's experience of cannabis is largely shaped by where they sit in the world — which state they're in — so we've got this really interesting view across all these jurisdictions. We've been able to organize that data and not just see patients once, but follow up with them monthly. Our platform is both a cannabis care platform — we've built our own EMR/EHR, electronic medical records — so we're collecting thousands and thousands of data points across these jurisdictions, learning ourselves, understanding this plant better as a medicine, and then publishing that research. Bryan Fields: Do you notice a difference from state to state, jurisdiction to jurisdiction, in terms of what's available to the consumer or patient from a medical perspective? Like, they may have a condition that qualifies them for cannabis treatment in state A, but that's not the case in state B. Do you guys come across that? Emily Fisher: Absolutely. I'll jump in, but I'm sure Dr. Chin has more to add — every state has its own qualifying conditions, its own products in each market. And of course people move more than ever now, so we're constantly navigating that with patients on a daily basis. But I'd also say, because we have over a hundred providers across 30 different specialties — let's say you're in Florida and you see a rheumatologist, and they say your autoimmune condition, your lupus, isn't a qualifying condition — Dr. June Chin: However, when you start talking to a health provider who understands integrative cannabis care, they'll say, well, you have chronic pain and inflammation, and that is a qualifying condition. So while lupus might not qualify, we can put you under chronic pain. Or if you're a Parkinson's patient in the South and Parkinson's isn't a qualifying condition, but nerve pain is, myalgia is, muscle pain is, then we can integrate that into your qualifying condition in the electronic medical record. What's also wonderful about Leafwell is that we have hundreds of thousands of data points. So you're not just getting information from one rheumatologist treating one patient — we're collecting data from hundreds of thousands of encounters, from a 32-year-old woman with rheumatoid arthritis to a 76-year-old. What type of products work in the daytime versus the nighttime? What works for rheumatology care plus gynecological issues, if you have women's health issues combined with an autoimmune disease? Think about all those data points put together — that's the robust network we're working with at Leafwell. Kellan Finney: The data points are staggering — that's a massive amount of data. But before we go into that, doesn't having all these different state-by-state qualifying conditions make things worse for patients? Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just said, okay, cannabis can help with X, Y, and Z, and it doesn't matter if you live in New Jersey, New York, or Maryland — you have the same condition, and this product, which we know can help you, should help you no matter which state you live in? Dr. June Chin: I think every state has its own political ecosystem and culture. I'd even push further and say every provider has their own cultural biases, and it's important for providers to have cultural competence — to understand the ecosystem they work within. When you're talking about plant medicine with such a deep, complicated background of prohibition, that brings in another fold. So I don't think it's easy to just give a blanket statement across all states and say "these are the conditions that work." It might not work for that state's ecosystem. But when you have a health provider who understands the nuances of that community, the process becomes that much easier. That's what Leafwell provides. Emily Fisher: Yeah, I agree, and I'd add that it makes things more complicated for the patient. It also creates blockers for the industry as a whole. We're still scratching the surface of what we know about this plant and the science behind it as a medicine, and part of that is this patchwork of regulations, this patchwork of realities. It still amazes me — I've been in this industry for eight years now, and things have moved so far in that time. I remember when I first got into it, finding a provider was really difficult. I'd hear stories of people walking down a dark alley to find a provider who would certify them or talk them through how to use cannabis, and half the time they'd have really bad experiences. Now we and other organizations have made that much easier — it's seamless. But even today, this is still largely inaccessible for a lot of people. They find it complicated. There's still a lack of awareness, a lack of education. Every time I go out and speak to patients and people outside the cannabis industry, I realize how much more work we still have to do. Bryan Fields: I think another piece of this is insurance. Do you guys help patients navigate that whole world — the information they need to communicate with their insurance provider to actually get coverage? Is that even possible? I'd imagine some of this should be covered from a medical perspective for treatment. What does that whole picture look like? Emily Fisher: When you see a trusted provider through Leafwell, we've long been an out-of-network provider, and patients can always submit the receipt from Leafwell to see if they have out-of-network coverage. But we're actually working with employers now to bring this integrative care into their employee benefit plans, which makes it much easier for commercial payers. For example, we partner with Meritain, Aetna, and Blue Cross Blue Shield to look at the data — to see what works for certain demographics of patients, certain ailments, certain chronic diseases, how much is being saved on prescription medicine costs, how much ER visits are being decreased, or other pharmaceutical medications that cause dependence. We can back that up with data so insurance companies understand it will help their bottom line, not just patients. We're very much working toward a future where cannabis will be reimbursed, and I believe we're at the cutting edge of the work being done with employers. That's the first step toward a future where the medicine will be reimbursed, and that's when we can really unlock and normalize this as an option for so many more people. If you think about it in the context of an employer, we know a big reason people are scared to use cannabis is workplace repercussions. So now, if employers are telling people, "Actually, this is an option for you, and you should try it as an alternative to your prescription medication," that really changes the conversation and makes it an option for those people. That's the first step in this journey, and we're definitely pushing toward that future. Dr. June Chin: And I'd say, on the other side of the coin, because more states are rolling into adult-use dispensaries and not just medical, you have increased access. So employers are realizing — whether they're for cannabis or against it — it's not really up to them whether their employees are self-medicating. There was a survey we did in New York that showed over 50% of employees self-medicate. Maybe they're using gummies for sleep, maybe for anxiety. But employers, especially the forward-thinking ones — kudos to them — are getting ahead of this. They're saying, we have to support our employees where they're at, while also making sure the workplace is drug-free and safe. We need to make sure our fifth-grade math teacher didn't accidentally take a sleep gummy instead of a daytime one and then has to call out sick. So we need to get in front of this and support our employees with an integrative cannabis care benefit, just like you'd carve out a benefit enhancement for vision or dental. We're working with employers to carve out an integrative cannabis benefit. Bryan Fields: That's such a difficult balance, because even here in New York we've had so many towns opt out of adult-use cannabis, mainly because they're uneducated. So it starts, probably, with the data your team is publishing, and consistently reinforcing the message that cannabis isn't the boogeyman — it has medicinal benefits, and here's the research. But changing hearts and minds, especially after prohibition lasting this long, isn't as effortless as just producing the data. It's harder than that. So how does your team handle that, knowing the hill isn't just one foot in front of the other — it's as steep as possible? Dr. June Chin: Education. I'll say this — education is critical, but education alone isn't going to move the needle. What we've seen in the data, and in the conversations we're having with employers now, is that this isn't just going to improve health outcomes for their workforce — it's going to save them a significant amount of money. We've seen a significant drop in healthcare utilization rates, prescription medication use, and absenteeism. These are things that truly impact an employer's bottom line, and when we can show that data, that's really powerful. That's what moves the needle. Kellan Finney: Yeah, I'd imagine the financial aspect is very intriguing for them. But from the insurance standpoint, is there pushback — maybe from other participants, like big pharma, who might not want cannabis to be a medicinally accepted option? Do you ever find those influences affecting the conversations behind the scenes, even if they're not said publicly? Dr. June Chin: The pushback I've seen clinically is around standardization — really making sure you're getting a product that's third-party tested and standardized, from a regulated dispensary. When patients can't get regulated, affordable medical cannabis, that's the pushback I've seen. But when we show institutions the data — let's look at the reduction in prescription medications, ER visits, physical therapy sessions, how many times a cancer patient has gone to the ER for nausea, dehydration, and vomiting — that's very clear, and it's hard to argue with. The real question on the other side is what kind of medical cannabis the patient is taking and where they're getting it from. Are they getting it from their grandson? A smoke shop? A gas station? Or a reputable dispensary? That's what we help patients do — we connect them with regulated dispensaries, and the dispensaries in that network offer a 15% discount through the Leafwell network. Emily, maybe you can talk more about that. Emily Fisher: Yes, absolutely. At the moment, with the work we're doing with employers, the care piece of this is covered — people can see a healthcare provider on the Leafwell platform. As Dr. Chin said, we have over 30 different medical specialties, so members can connect with specialists, understand how cannabis can be incorporated into their treatment plan, and receive personalized guidance, all covered by insurance. But reimbursement for the medicine itself doesn't exist today. As a proxy for that, we've negotiated a discount with all of our dispensary partners — we work with over 700 dispensaries — and it's a 15% stackable discount up to 30%. So even though cannabis itself isn't covered today, members who access it through Leafwell can save upwards of $500 a year. That's a significant saving, and employers really appreciate that. Bryan Fields: How do dispensaries qualify for this program? Do they reach out to you, or do you reach out to them? Emily Fisher: We work with — well, obviously there are still a lot of dispensaries we don't work with, but yeah, reach out to us. Bryan Fields: Shout them out. Emily Fisher: Dispensaries qualify if they're a legal, regulated dispensary. There are obviously a lot of cannabis consumers, and that number is growing every day, but there's a far bigger market of the cannabis-curious. We talk about this all the time — there's probably double the number of cannabis-curious people as there are actual consumers. So there's opportunity for all dispensaries to partner with Leafwell, and something like getting this into employers really does unlock the cannabis-curious. I was at an employee benefit health fair, and I'll give you an example. One of the women there, an administrator for the city, a civil worker, loved this employee benefit and said, "Actually, my son is covered under my employee benefits under this health plan — can he go to the dispensary and get a discount? Can he see a Leafwell provider?" He's in college, and frankly, he uses a lot of cannabis — she wasn't sure if he was using too much, but he says it helps with his ADHD. So think about the dependents on these healthcare plans — you're not just reaching the cannabis-curious, you're reaching the whole family. This is 360 care, integrative care for the entire family, under that employee benefit. Bryan Fields: Who came up with that idea? How did you finagle all of that? Emily Fisher: Honestly, I'll let Dr. Chin take this one. Dr. June Chin: I just think this is the natural progression for cannabis therapeutics. Leafwell started with medical certifications for access, but as this complex industry evolves and we get more adult-use dispensaries, you have increased access. This is really about therapeutic wellness and therapeutic care, so I think it's been a natural evolution. Emily Fisher: Agreed. And I'd say the future of therapeutic or medical cannabis looks very different from what we understand today as medical versus recreational, or medical versus adult-use — which is really a legal construct, not the reality from a consumer or patient perspective. I've heard all sorts of estimates, but people estimate that about 80% of people who use cannabis are using it for some form of therapeutic outcome. So if you can tell those people, "You can get your medicine or care reimbursed," that's a huge incentive to use it and get therapeutic guidance — and for many more people to use it. That's our vision, and it's very different from what we're experiencing today. Bryan Fields: I love it. I can only imagine whiteboarding this out — okay, here's the goal, and the first step is figuring out who to even call to start, because it's not like you can just pick up the phone. It's a very difficult thing to try to overcome, working through a longstanding prohibition, when the person you need isn't readily available. You have to fight through channels with consistent persistence — I tip my hat to you, because that's not an easy fight. But Dr. Chin, I want to go back to you, because earlier you mentioned providers wanting consistency in their product. Cannabis is a plant with massive variability — so how does your team ensure the data allows a patient to get a consistent product? Dr. June Chin: Well, that's the secret sauce, isn't it? The data — if you have a rheumatologist logging in from Florida versus one logging in from California or Ohio, because we have all this robust data, because we have the electronic medical records, a patient coming into the Leafwell network doesn't just have one provider as their specialist. They have multiple providers, and hundreds of thousands of encounters worth of data points at their fingertips. That's part of our technology and our data. Kellan Finney: Can we talk about some of the research too? Share what you're doing, or what's on the horizon, to give our listeners a sense of where things stand and what the future holds. Dr. June Chin: Oh my goodness. So Dr. Doucet, our senior research director, is from Johns Hopkins — he's an epidemiologist and public health specialist, and he's on his seventh published, peer-reviewed paper with us, Emily. It's amazing. We have data on how telemedicine increases access to care, especially for underinsured and underserved populations. In Pennsylvania, we looked at rural areas where you'd have to travel two hours to see a GYN specialist — being able to see a telemedicine specialist instead decreases healthcare utilization costs. Then we have research on PTSD and benzodiazepines, showing how medical cannabis can decrease benzodiazepine usage and actually decrease the cost of care for PTSD patients. What other studies are we talking about, Emily? Emily Fisher: I'd love to put a link in the show notes so listeners can take a look at what we have. Bryan Fields: Yeah. Are there any areas that have shocked or surprised you from the research — where you went in assuming one thing and it turned out completely different? Emily Fisher: For me — and I'm not a scientist, I always say I'm really the layman, the patient, the consumer — it's really the economic impact that surprised me. We've known cannabis as medicine for a long time, and people's understanding of it has largely been anecdotal. But now we have data comparing a group of patients who've used cannabis for a year against a group who haven't, and we see things like a 50% reduction in doctor visits, a 48% reduction in ER visits, and a 13% reduction in absenteeism, along with a significant reduction in prescription medication use. This is huge — whether you're an employer or a payer, this is really significant for the entire healthcare system. That surprised me, even after working in this industry for almost a decade. Kellan Finney: If you gave us a magic wand and money was no obstacle — no ethics either — what research would you want to see done? Emily Fisher: I would say women's health. Women's health research and cannabis medicine is what I would want to study — whether it's breast cancer, post-surgical care, or pelvic pain. That's what I'd like to see more of. Dr. June Chin: For me, it would be understanding whether educating providers more deeply on the endocannabinoid system changes how comfortable skeptical providers become with recommending cannabis. That's part of what Leafwell stands for — we do webinars, we go to conferences with other health providers. I'm actually doing one in Westchester, New York in May, with providers from physical medicine and rehabilitation, orthopedic surgery. Getting this education into the hands of providers will only increase access, because you'll get cross-referrals. Maybe a hospital or cancer center isn't quite ready, because of federal legalities, to recommend cannabis care themselves, but they have no problem referring to us as integrative cannabis specialists, and then we co-collaborate with the local doctor. This is what employee benefits and insurance will cover — it's called collaborative care, and there's actually a code for it on the insurance claim form. We make sure the patient gets the cannabis specialist they need, in the specialty they need — rheumatology, GYN, oncology — and we communicate with their local doctor so they get the healthcare they need locally. Kellan Finney: I have a question that might pivot the whole conversation. California announced its medical program in 1996. Colorado legalized adult-use cannabis in 2014 — so it's been eleven years. What's it going to take for the boards that certify doctors to actually allow the endocannabinoid system to be taught in medical school? I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, I'm just curious — we've had this research for twenty-plus years, we have around 30 states with adult-use or medical programs, and the benefits are profound based on the statistics. How do we actually get the boards that certify what's taught in medical school to start encompassing this information? Bryan Fields: Rescheduling — is that what it takes? Literally, rescheduling from HHS. We're right on the cusp of it actually being taught, so that's another huge benefit of rescheduling that people never talk about. Why don't we lead with that? Everyone talks about taxes. Emily Fisher: I think there are a lot of different interests at play. I'll offer a slightly different perspective, because I'm based in London and get to see what's happening in Europe and hear the discussions happening there. You look at the US, and there are around 4 million patients — there's a ton of evidence this is working. Europe is known to be much more conservative with its protocols, but what the industry needs as a whole is more research, more data. That's another area that's really going to benefit from rescheduling — investment into research will increase significantly, and that's what we need. We need to follow the science. I'm not adopted, but I'm married to one, and I'm surrounded by doctors, and what's going to change the minds of skeptical doctors, as well as those who are already for this, is research — the science. Bryan Fields: Just need more of it. It's such a hard balance, exactly like you were saying, Kellan — why don't we lead with that? Well, it's maybe not the most popular topic, but it might be the most influential one, exactly like you were saying, Emily. If we have more research, hearts and minds might change, and then we can start teaching this, understanding more, and offering these products more consistently based on the research — which is kind of a loop challenge. What do you put first? It's nearly impossible to figure out. Kellan Finney: Going back to the data question — is your team utilizing AI at all, to understand additional areas that maybe haven't been internally considered, but based on the data findings, maybe should be explored further? Emily Fisher: Yeah, absolutely. We're a technology and data company, so we're absolutely taking advantage of new technologies, including AI, to understand what our data says and to organize the existing body of research out there. Bryan Fields: Anything you can share on that? Emily Fisher: Well, going back to the point Dr. Chin made earlier — in order to get cannabis reimbursed as a medicine, we believe you need standardization. We have to better understand what product is good for whom. It's complicated — cannabis is complicated, and patients are using it for lots of different conditions. So we're definitely using AI to help, in addition to the clinical input we're collecting from providers on our platform and the patient-reported outcomes, to really refine those personalized care plans. As dispensaries become in-network partners with us, we're able to collect data on the back end too — what are consumers and patients purchasing, what's the COA data behind what they're buying, and how does that close the loop and inform their healthcare utilization? Is it strain- and terpene-specific? How does it all work together? Bryan Fields: Yeah, everything matters — all the data points matter. Dr. June Chin: Right, I think the real question is what product specifically is good for a specific outcome. That's the Holy Grail, and that's definitely what we're working toward. Bryan Fields: Yeah, because I'm just envisioning how complicated it is knowing that a product might affect me one way and affect Kellan, or you, completely differently — and then using that for medicinal purposes. Dr. June Chin: That's such a key alignment. Exactly like I was saying — if you give it to a seventh-grade teacher and they use it for sleep, but it keeps them up all night, they're not going to be good at their job the next day, because the product didn't work for them. And on top of that, that teacher could also be on Wellbutrin, or you could be on Zoloft plus Ritalin — what does that play into it? This is the secret sauce, this is where all the data points matter. Kellan Finney: Is there any plan for a large clinical trial — the kind of detailed studies that could really tease this out? Is that going to require rescheduling too? Dr. June Chin: I think that requires rescheduling, but I also think Leafwell is positioned to act as a CRO. Dr. Doucet works with cancer centers, and we also work with other universities, because we have so many patients coming through and all this robust data. A cancer center, for example, might say, "I'm studying ovarian cancer, and I'd love to target women between the ages of 37 and 45," with certain exclusions and inclusions — we're able to help other organizations formulate a research protocol. Bryan Fields: So they could potentially use your data to tease out targets and build a clinical trial around it — noticing, say, that people in a certain age group with certain symptoms have benefited tremendously, and that it's worth researching further through a clinical trial. That's the kind of thing they could use the information you're aggregating for. Emily Fisher: Not only the data — they could use us for recruitment purposes as well. We see 15,000 patients a month, across 38 states and growing. We're expecting to see a lot more patients this time next year. Bryan Fields: I feel like I'm about to make a silly statement by asking the government to logically make decisions, but I'll go for it. If the government wants a better medicinal understanding of the plant, wouldn't it make sense for them to recruit your team to help, so they could feel more confident that rescheduling decisions are based on real data science? Dr. June Chin: We would love to work with regulators and government entities. I'm the vice chair of the cannabis advisory board for the New York State Office of Cannabis Management, and I think we need all the help we can get. As we move toward rescheduling, there's a growing interest in collaboration — in the past, these data sets have been very siloed and disconnected, and that's been part of the problem. We're already starting to speak with organizations about how we can collaborate to move this forward, and I think regulators are open to it. Before Kentucky came on board, for instance, they reached out to us and asked what we thought and how other states were rolling things out. We're actually presenting at CANNRA, the Cannabis Regulators Association, in a few months. I think regulators want to understand what the market is, and not just from a clinical trial perspective — what's the observational data, what are the cultural nuances in different states? Emily Fisher: And I don't think it's just about rescheduling — it's also about where the industry is. The industry is struggling in many ways, and we've gotten to a point where a lot of retailers are fighting over the same consumers. We've got to unlock more consumers — there are a hundred million people out there who are interested in cannabis, who are thinking, "Maybe I should try this." The industry is starting to realize we've got to go back to education, back to speaking with people who aren't already consumers, not just the people who are already adult-use consumers. In fact, many of them are looking for a therapeutic outcome, so if you support them and optimize their cannabis experience, maybe they'll spend more, maybe they'll bring new customers to you. It's been interesting to watch that shift even between this year and last year. Dr. June Chin: Yeah, the conversations we're having tell me that people are really ready to refocus on the therapeutic outcomes of cannabis. Bryan Fields: One year from now, what has changed? Emily Fisher: I believe cannabis being reimbursed as a medicine isn't so far in the future — I think we're very close. I don't know if it'll be a year, but I'd love it to be. When that happens, a whole domino effect follows — it's a big incentive for people to try cannabis, to become a patient, and there's a refocus on the medical side that becomes a lot more aligned with what's happening in Europe. That's what I'm seeing. And for us as an organization, everything we're doing — our mission, our pillars of access, education, and research — only becomes more relevant to everyone. Bryan Fields: Are there any areas where the science has, let's say, disappointed, or not been as successful for cannabis as people naturally assume it would be? Dr. June Chin: I think people underestimate the importance of integrating cannabis rather than relying on it alone — it's not one-size-fits-all, and it's not going to cure everything if you're just using cannabis by itself. The important thing is that it's okay — it's not "good drug, bad drug," pharmaceutical is bad, cannabis is good, I'm going all natural. It's okay to integrate both, and you can get the best of both worlds. Emily Fisher: I'm just nodding along — I deeply care about this point, because as a patient, integrative care is good medicine. It's what medicine should be. There shouldn't be this "good, bad," "alternative or medical" divide — these are all tools for you as a patient, as a consumer. I'm so passionate about making as much available to people as possible. Bryan Fields: Last question — if you could put anything on a billboard, metaphorically speaking, to get a message to billions of people — an image, a quote, a word, something that inspired you — what would it be? Dr. June Chin: Can you answer this one, Emily? Emily Fisher: I think... you might want to cut this one out, but I saw something that went up on a billboard in the UK about a year ago. It said, "All of us have an endocannabinoid system." What I love about that kind of messaging on a billboard is that it normalizes this — it knocks down barriers, it makes this really personal to everyone. I'd love to see more messaging, more advertising like that. Bryan Fields: That's a good answer — that's an amazing answer. So ladies, for our listeners who want to get in touch and learn more, and for employers who want to explore the program, where can they find you? Emily Fisher: Leafwell.com. Come to our website — we're actually updating it, so in a few weeks it's going to look very different, and there's a lot happening that isn't necessarily visible on the site today but will be soon. Get in touch — we don't ever stop. We're open seven days a week, 8am to 8pm in every time zone in the US, and then we have a European team, so when you guys go to sleep, we're awake again. Get in touch, we're here for you. Bryan Fields: I love it. Thanks for taking the time — this was a lot of fun. Emily Fisher: Thank you. Dr. June Chin: Thank you.