All-in-One Dispensary Solution ft. Anne Forkutza

All-in-One Dispensary Solution ft. Anne Forkutza

Anne Forkutza: How do you expect someone to successfully run a licensed, legal dispensary if they've never been inside one before? Bryan Fields: What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Dime. I'm Bryan Fields, and with me as always is Kellen Finney. This week we've got a very special guest, Anne Forkutza, Head of Strategic Partnerships and Industry Relations at Dutchie. Thanks for taking the time — how are you doing today? Anne Forkutza: I'm doing great, thanks so much for having me. Excited to dive in. Kellen, how are you doing? Kellen Finney: I'm doing really well. Excited to talk to Anne so I can learn more about Dutchie, and excited to try to hold the West Coast down. Bryan Fields: Yeah, that's right. And just to get right into it, we've got an East Coast/West Coast battle, but I think today it's very important to understand — where does your heart lie? Anne Forkutza: My heart lies in New York, so sorry Kellen. Although I will say, is Colorado really West Coast? Because I'm originally from Vancouver, Canada — you know, BC, Cali, that's truly West Coast. Kellen Finney: I think so, but it's tough, because you talk to someone and they'll say Midwest, but you talk to someone from Chicago and they're like, "Absolutely not, Chicago's the Midwest." Ohio, Michigan — Colorado I think is West Coast. I think you all need your own category. Anne Forkutza: Colorado is actually near and dear to my heart too, because I'll tell you — the very first big account I ever closed was a little company called Native Roots in Colorado. It also resulted in me getting a Native Roots tattoo to close the deal. Bryan Fields: Well, I like that. True story? Anne Forkutza: True story. Bryan Fields: So, I don't have any tattoos yet. Kellen Finney: I'm also — I don't like to discriminate. Bryan Fields: I appreciate that. I guess then let's just kind of dive right in — how did you get into the cannabis space? Give a little background about yourself. Anne Forkutza: A bit about my background — I think anyone in the cannabis industry has this feeling of wanting to be part of something bigger than themselves, and I sense that from you both with the content and stories you like to tell too. But going way back: I'm technically a Canadian citizen working on my visa to get to New York, but I was born in a tiny Muslim country in Southeast Asia called Brunei — mostly known for oil, and the Sultan of Brunei used to be one of the richest men in the world, I think before Bill Gates. The dominant language and population there is Malay, and I'm mostly Chinese. So when I was born, my parents moved to Canada to give me a chance at equal opportunity. If I had stayed in Brunei being Chinese and not Malay, there's a sense of being treated like a second-class citizen — not in a mean way, just, you're in a Malay country, you're Chinese, of course you'll get treated differently. One example my mom always told me: if you were applying for a job and were extremely qualified, and there was a Malay person who was maybe not as qualified, he'd probably get the job because you're not Malay. So that sense of equal opportunity, and being so grateful for being in Canada, in North America, in New York, having that chance — that's really the reason I'm so drawn to cannabis. When you look at the cannabis industry, we're constantly striving for cannabis retail to be treated equally and have the same opportunities as the rest of the retail industry. That's always been my North Star — I believe my path in this world is to do good through inspiring others and striving for equal opportunity, and that's what gets me up in the morning and why I love this industry so much. Bryan Fields: I appreciate you sharing that — you can really see the connection between your background and your role at Dutchie. For our listeners who may be unfamiliar with Dutchie, can you give a high-level overview of the company and the role it plays in the cannabis space? Anne Forkutza: Absolutely. Our mission at Dutchie is to provide safe and easy access to cannabis. We do that through our compliant all-in-one dispensary tech platform — point of sale, e-commerce, payments, compliance, state traceability reporting, and we've even started providing insurance. Essentially everything you need to run a compliant, licensed, legal dispensary operation. That's what we do on paper, but I like to think of us as the connector — because your point of sale is so core to your retail operations, people come to us needing a lawyer, an accountant, shelving, whatever it may be. We become this hub of information and resources. A lot of my colleagues on the implementation and support teams used to be dispensary operators themselves, so we have this melting pot of great information, and we're genuinely passionate about the industry. Kellen Finney: Why does the cannabis industry need its own point-of-sale, all-in-one platform? Why can't we just use a restaurant one? Walk us through some of the nuances required in the industry. Anne Forkutza: Glad you asked — that's probably our number one question. When it comes to state traceability and compliance: in regular retail, you buy a t-shirt, you bring it home, and that's it. In cannabis retail there are compliance nuances — purchase limits, how much can be sold to one consumer per day, and equivalencies. For example, a beverage might be 250 milliliters but have a certain amount of THC, and that purchase limit translates into a dried-cannabis equivalent. Then there are taxes, plus traceability reports and integrations into state traceability systems that non-cannabis point-of-sale systems just don't handle at all. You really need a cannabis-specific POS system to run your operations without risking your license. Bryan Fields: Are those rules state by state, and does the software come pre-programmed? If I'm a new retailer, how am I supposed to know about these limits — do I have to read all the rules and regs and then configure the software myself? Where does Dutchie play a role in helping someone new get off the ground? Anne Forkutza: We do it all for you. I wish it was the same state by state, but it's not. Kellen, you're in Colorado, which is a Metrc state — but the Colorado version of Metrc is different from the California version, which is different from the BioTrack version in New York that's still being configured and built. It's definitely different state by state. At Dutchie we have a full-stack compliance team and a government relations team, and we believe we're stronger together — we work directly with regulators. Everyone likes to hate on the regulators, but they're just doing their job, and most of the time they kind of fell into that role. Kudos to them — it's a really tough job. The fact that they're so accessible, showing up in person for Cannabis Control Board meetings with live public comment periods, is amazing. New York doesn't realize how lucky it is. Bryan Fields: It's an incredibly challenging role — trying to provide clear guidelines while also being accessible to explain them, especially since every state seems to add its own surprising, unusual rules. So someone gets a license and wants to open a dispensary — do they contact Dutchie right away, or do you get involved later in the process? Anne Forkutza: It depends, and that's the power of partnership. At the end of the day, especially in New York, it's all about who you know, and there's a lot of trust involved. We sell software, and we're not the only company that sells compliant software, but I think we stand out because we show up for the cannabis community. We've been in New York for a number of years, we're familiar with how New York rolled out in the medical space, and we work with over 6,000 dispensaries across North America — there's nothing like that level of experience. So once you have a license, it's about sequencing: do you have your real estate picked out and approved by OCM? Has it also been approved by DASNY, the Dormitory Authority of New York? Have you hired your staff? We want the person training on the software to be the person who will actually run the store day-to-day, not necessarily the owner who isn't there daily. We pair clients with an implementation specialist — more often than not someone who used to work at or own a dispensary, so they know exactly what you're going through. After we launch you, that's when things get real — it's like you're dating during the sales and implementation cycle, but after launch, now you're married. Luckily we have a support team and customer success team of over 100 people, so we have the infrastructure to support you when things get hairy — and in software and cannabis, it's not "if," it's "when." Bryan Fields: Dutchie's been around for a while now — 2017, which is basically a century in cannabis years. As new states have come online, what lessons have you learned that get applied to newer states? Anne Forkutza: I just got back from Minnesota — August 1st was Minnesota's adult-use legalization, and I even saw Jesse Ventura there, which was a cool moment. Minnesota is a great example because they really wanted to learn how every other state rolled out — licensing types, social equity, priority licensing. They've looked to Dutchie for our experience. I think as new markets roll out, they take the time to look at how other states did it and are more thoughtful rather than rushing. One interesting thing about Minnesota is they created a new license category — alongside MSOs and micros, they created something called a "mezzo," almost like a baby MSO, where you can be fully vertical but only operate a maximum of three to five dispensaries, with some kind of canopy restriction, which I think is a bit ridiculous, but that's a conversation for another day. Bryan Fields: It'd be odd for a state to roll out without some ridiculous restriction. I think New York did a good job too, given the speed of their rollout — maybe surprising to some, but not bad. Anne Forkutza: I don't know why people complain it's so slow — I think people get excited and the process takes longer than expected, but it's a genuinely challenging process. Bryan Fields: That's the aspect I wanted to highlight about your role at Dutchie — helping people get started the right way, since there are critical steps you can't just skip by going to a normal POS provider or Home Depot. I'd love for you to walk us through the dispensary showroom experience your team rolled out. Anne Forkutza: It was really interesting. Back in December, Senator Schumer was in town, and there was something called the Bronx Cannabis Hub — an incubator for about 40 social equity card applicants that was all over the news. I reached out to the Bronx Cannabis Hub, and one of the co-founders of the Bronx Community Foundation, Desmond, reached back out. Talking to him, it became apparent that all of the card applicants they represented had never actually been inside a licensed, legal dispensary before. So think about it — how do you expect someone to successfully run a licensed dispensary if they've never even been inside one? Not everyone wants to travel out of state — New York's the center of the universe, why go anywhere else? And we didn't want illicit bodegas to be people's only point of reference for what a dispensary looks like. Working with amazing partners like Temeka Group, which has done a lot of dispensary construction in New York, KayaPush, and the Cannabis Workforce Initiative — a subset of WDI — we all banded together, because we're only successful if New York's card licensees are successful. A rising tide lifts all boats. So we created the dispensary showroom, piloted in the Bronx at the historic post office just off Grand Concourse. We got feedback that it was the most exciting thing to happen in the Bronx in a while, which was flattering, and it was a huge success. People asked, "Where else are you doing this? We need this upstate, in Western New York, on Long Island." So we put together a tour and intentionally skipped Manhattan and Brooklyn, since dispensaries were already opening there — we wanted Buffalo, Rochester, Long Island to have events too, since those areas don't always get them, and when they do, people show up with a vengeance. Bryan Fields: It's fascinating that people aren't expected to succeed without ever seeing a dispensary first. When people walk into the showroom for the first time, are they surprised by things? What does that reaction look like? Anne Forkutza: Definitely surprised. It feels more like general retail than a pharmacy or a bodega — I don't know what people's point of reference even is. Initially, feedback was people looking around thinking, "I don't know if I can afford this — how much is all this going to cost?" It's actually more affordable than people think, but at the same time it's a reality check — whether or not you have a card license and plan to work with DASNY and the social equity fund, this is a real, viable business, not something you renovate for ten thousand dollars and call it a day. Normal retail is really hard; cannabis retail is really, really tough. I genuinely believe dispensary operators have the toughest job in the world — they're on the front lines getting feedback from consumers, and sometimes forget that as an industry insider you know which dispensary is licensed, which isn't, why prices are what they are given potency taxes and markups — but the consumer just sees it as being ripped off, and that shows up in Google reviews. On top of that there's over-regulation, like only being allowed two non-illuminated signs, while illicit shops slap up neon signage all day. Bryan Fields: We could probably build a bodega for ten grand — probably. Is there any feature at the showroom that blows people away, something they didn't realize was required to operate a dispensary in New York? Anne Forkutza: Yes — right when you walk in, you need to check ID, and there are different ways to fulfill that. One feature we have is an ID scan to confirm the ID isn't expired or fake, and we don't store the ID information without consent — little details people don't realize, like the fact that you can't store someone's ID without consent because of privacy laws. Then in the back of house, there's a vault built to scale, shelving with inventory, and a quarantine area — if an item is returned or faulty, it physically cannot be in the same shelving area as the rest of inventory. There's also the security component: cameras need to be placed in certain locations with certain angles, which is key to passing inspection. Even if you've been inside a dispensary, you rarely get to see the back of house, so that's the stuff that gets people really excited. Bryan Fields: Is anyone else doing this kind of showroom, or is it just Dutchie? Anne Forkutza: Not that I know of, and it's been really flattering — since then we've heard from Minnesota, which wants to roll something similar out in a few months, and Maryland, which just turned on and heard about the dispensary showroom too. We're figuring out logistics for how to roll it out there. I don't think anyone else is doing this right now, and it came from a need — it's the right thing to do. On another note, I think the industry, and myself included, has a bit of cannabis conference fatigue — beige carpets, fluorescent lighting, rows of booths. You spend a lot of money and the only people who really get ROI are the event planners. The showroom came out of necessity, but really it's about disrupting the cannabis events model — creating something intentional and catered to future dispensary operators rather than paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a booth. I sincerely believe if you do things for the right reasons, the business comes after. Bryan Fields: Making the decision to actually build and tour a showroom seems like it required a lot of approvals and money, and Dutchie can carry a corporate vibe sometimes. Walk us through getting that idea into action. Anne Forkutza: The Bronx showroom was a proof of concept and pilot — we didn't know we'd end up touring it everywhere. Once people saw it, it gave us the credibility for other partners to come on board. We had partners like Temeka Group, KayaPush, and the Cannabis Workforce Initiative contribute and help promote it. Temeka Group graciously donated the furniture and setup, and the showroom setup is actually built to scale, reflecting real dispensaries they've built in New York. Many sponsors handle security, HR, and scheduling, and we already work together in New York in real life, so the showroom was a natural progression where we could share stories about launching dispensaries like Smacked or Dazed. It takes a lot of coordination and a great event planner. Being at Dutchie, doing something unconventional like this was possible because I'm grateful to be at a company that believes in me, and we've seen the ROI come out of it. Bryan Fields: I can only imagine how the funnel compares — a normal trade show where your customers may not even be present, versus a showroom full of people actually looking to start a dispensary. Dutchie is obviously a core part of the retail experience, but sometimes things go wrong — can you talk a bit about the 4/20 outage? Anne Forkutza: Thank you for giving me the space to clarify. During 4/20 we had an issue where our e-commerce solution — our online menus — went down for a bit, due to a third-party provider issue, though we own the outage. Our point-of-sale, in-store system, was fine — it was a matter of pivoting, telling dispensary operators we couldn't take online orders and to direct customers in-store. That day we actually had record-high in-store transactions and dollars processed through the POS. Still, it was unfortunate, and we've spoken to every one of our clients, taken full ownership, and are crediting all clients the estimated profits lost during that time, because we understand what a significant day 4/20 is. It's really about how you recover — we've since produced a root cause analysis report explaining what happened and what we're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bryan Fields: I'm glad you shared that — your team could have avoided offering those credits, and I know how hard software is and how bugs always seem to appear at the worst times. On another note, I heard a rumor that Dutchie sells data — can you confirm or deny? Anne Forkutza: We do not sell data. I think the rumor started in New York because of our card-holder social equity pricing — zero dollars for 24 months — and people thought, "That's too good to be true, how are you making money?" We make money through payments, insurance, and other markets. The rumor was that we made up for the free pricing by selling data, and we absolutely do not. Our North Star has always been dispensary-first, and if we sold data, we'd likely be selling to brands, which would shift our focus away from that North Star. We also believe everyone's data should be their own — some dispensary operators in other markets sell their own data as a revenue stream, and if we did the same, we'd be competing against our own clients and putting them out of business. That's just not something we're going to do. Bryan Fields: It's important to understand the trust factor with a software platform — without trust, there are even more challenges layered on top of the usual cannabis ones. I'm excited to ask about the programs Dutchie runs to work with politicians and help advance the industry, since some bigger companies are accused of only helping themselves. Anne Forkutza: It's really exciting — sometimes I feel like we're in a movie when I talk to my colleague Bryan Brash, our VP of Legal and External Affairs, who's sometimes literally on the Hill that day. Some of our initiatives: lobbying to get rid of 280E, so cannabis retailers can be treated like regular retailers and write off basic business expenses. The other is SAFE Banking — being able to have a bank account. Even in Canada, where cannabis has been federally legal for over four years, there's still no guarantee you can get a bank account. Passing SAFE would help with basic business needs like alternate payment options, since being a cash-only business is dangerous from a security standpoint. Getting rid of 280E would be huge, and I think it's going to happen in our lifetime, which is historic. Bryan Fields: I've heard 280E affects dispensary owners more significantly than operators further up the supply chain, since dispensaries can't play the creative accounting games others might. Is that correct? Anne Forkutza: That is correct, though I'm not an accounting person — disclaimer, this podcast is not legal or accounting advice, we like to call it "creative compliance." But yes, there might be creative ways to offset 280E if you have other sources of business, though that's not my area of expertise. Bryan Fields: I just wanted to highlight that your team is lobbying for cannabis companies to have the same basic rights as other retail businesses. Anne Forkutza: Exactly — just the basic necessities of running a business. There's an openness to discrimination against cannabis retail that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere — if a landlord charged a dispensary five times what the restaurant next door pays, or a bank rejected someone with perfect credit, people would call that unfair anywhere else, but as soon as it's cannabis, people shrug it off. I can't wait for the day when cannabis retail is just retail, because some of the hardest-working, most resourceful people I've ever met are dispensary operators doing it for the love, not the money. Bryan Fields: Is there a tool Dutchie provides that retailers should be paying more attention to? Anne Forkutza: It's coming — you heard it here first. We're working on some creative payment solutions, but what I'm most excited about is AI. Everyone's using ChatGPT, everyone uses Netflix's recommendation engine — we're building AI tools to help dispensary operators run a better business and help end consumers find the right product for them and get future product recommendations. That should be previewed before the end of the year. No one's done this in cannabis retail yet, not even in regular retail — I believe cannabis retail will set the best practice. Bryan Fields: Is there a common question or concern first-time dispensary owners ask — like, "What should my opening order be?" Anne Forkutza: We can't tell you that — people sometimes even ask if they can just copy another dispensary's product catalog to skip filling out their own order sheet, and no, that's someone else's data. What they should be mindful of is hiring their team and having a succession plan — bud tender turnover is real, something like 30-40% will quit, especially since new stores keep opening and poaching staff. Treat your bud tenders well, invest in good internet — don't have your uncle set up the router in the back of a concrete vault. And really ask yourself how badly you want it, because if you're on the fence about opening a dispensary, you probably shouldn't do it unless you have some deeper drive — money alone won't sustain you, and this industry is genuinely hard. Bryan Fields: We've said it's harder than you can imagine, and then even harder than that — people hop in thinking it's a cool side hustle. Anne Forkutza: Right — like throwing great dinner parties versus opening a restaurant, two very different things. Bryan Fields: What do they say about a baker who opens a bakery? He'll never bake again. Anne Forkutza: Yes. Bryan Fields: If you could sum up your experience in one takeaway or lesson to pass on to the next generation, what would it be? Anne Forkutza: If you do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reasons, with the right people, the business will come. There's a bigger fight and purpose in this industry, and people want to connect with other good people — software you can buy from anyone, but who do you want in your corner? That's rung true for me from the beginning, and it's true to me still. Bryan Fields: Prediction time — as the cannabis consumer experience evolves, how is Dutchie planning to embrace personalization to create a seamless, frictionless transaction process for the customer? Anne Forkutza: We take something familiar — Netflix, food ordering apps, ChatGPT — and put our own twist on it within the context of what we offer. That mix of cannabis OGs and people from other industries at Dutchie creates a melting pot of creative ideas, and I'm excited to see it come to fruition. Kellen Finney: I'd agree, slightly differently — I think creating an experience consumers are already used to with other consumer packaged goods will be crucial to breaking stigma and driving mass adoption, treating cannabis ordering like ordering a beer through an app. Anne Forkutza: Do you mean like when you're ordering food and you get five minutes to add something else on? Kellen Finney: Yeah, maybe I order my cannabis and get a chocolate shake added on the way home. Anne Forkutza: I often question whether ordering cannabis online by itself is enough — maybe it starts with ordering food first, then you add on cannabis, alcohol, or even a phone charger, which I did the other day. You can get Dick's Sporting Goods delivered now — it's wild. Bryan Fields: I dream of ordering an eighth and having it suggest a burger within five minutes for a discount — I think that integration is where we're headed. What I enjoy most about Dutchie is that it started as one thing and has quickly evolved to provide a full suite of tools based on the industry's and customers' needs, hopefully reducing challenges for everyone involved over time. Anne Forkutza: People ask why we're offering insurance, and we say, why not? It's very hard to find, and a lot of our clients aren't insured, which isn't okay, so we started offering it. Insurance is also a strong business in general, so it's not a bad play either, even though there's a lot of risk, especially in cannabis insurance — but we think it's the right thing to do. Bryan Fields: I'll hold you to that. Anne, if our listeners want to see a dispensary showroom, especially here in New York, where can they find you? Anne Forkutza: The next big one is in the Mid-Hudson area, in Poughkeepsie, September 20th to 21st. Otherwise, hit me up on LinkedIn — send me a DM and I can share the whole tour schedule. Bryan Fields: Awesome, we'll link it up in the show notes. Thanks for taking the time, this was fun. Anne Forkutza: Thank you.