How AYRLOOM Built Its Advantage in New York Cannabis ft. Eddie Brennan

Eddie Brennan: I own a very large alcohol company and I've seen the sales of alcohol decline over the last several years. So I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth because I had the luxury of playing on both sides of this, but I'd be lying if I didn't think marijuana was and is a threat to the alcohol business because I see it in my own numbers every day. Bryan Fields: You have a 115-year-old family business. Then you build Heirloom on the same farm. It benefits from generations of infrastructure and operating experience. But Heirloom is intentionally its own company. Eddie, as the cannabis business started growing quickly, how has your thinking evolved around what should be shared between the business and what absolutely needs to remain separate? Eddie Brennan: That's such a good question, because originally we wanted everything to just be together. We saw it all as one happy family, right? We shared a lot of the same values, same employees. Mac Hubert, who's the president of Heirloom today, was the CFO at Beak & Skiff, and we worked closely together — really CFO and COO at Beak & Skiff. And so together we worked to build Beak & Skiff. Unfortunately, due to federal illegality and all the rules, Heirloom really had to be created as a completely separate entity on our farm. Everything from the eight acres it sits on — selling those acres off from Beak & Skiff to Heirloom, creating a real estate company, creating a completely separate entity, separate bank accounts — and so even today it gets confusing to our employees, because we have shared services between the companies, whether it's human resources or some of the things we do with our sales teams. It's separate but together, and it can be a confusing world. But for us, the strength of Heirloom comes from Beak & Skiff, and the strength of Beak & Skiff comes from Heirloom — we really play off each other, and that's been our superpower. We're able to support each other — Beak & Skiff got Heirloom off the ground, and as Heirloom's grown, it's helped Beak & Skiff, and vice versa. So that's been really amazing to see, the synergies we've created between the two companies. But ultimately, yeah, separate entities. Bryan Fields: Eddie, did it feel weird thinking through this? Originally it was probably like the little train that could, and then as it started to grow you're like, wow, this has really turned into something. Do they ever compete for the same resources, where you have to make a decision and go, okay, they're both pulling on the same thread here — do you have to separate the two more so they're not losing that original synergistic effect? Eddie Brennan: In the short term it might make a tiny difference, but in the long term it'll make a massive difference. Even a small example — we applied for a second acre to grow marijuana here, and we got our second acre for outdoor growth. So now we have almost 8,000 pounds and we need a place to dry them. We have these amazing controlled-atmosphere rooms that we use for apples, and we get into these difficult conversations: what's a better use of this space — drying marijuana or storing apples? The economics are very clear that we need to repurpose this for cannabis drying space, but those conversations get tricky, because then I have to go to my cousin, who runs our orchard and has done it for 20 years, and take that space away and reallocate it to the Heirloom team. I often find myself in the middle of those. But it can go the other way too. I think we were always trying to do what's best to keep the farm going and growing. Originally, when we started Heirloom and got into it, it was called Beak & Skiff Research, and the reasoning behind it was we wanted to grow another crop at Beak & Skiff. Apple farming is inherently a really tough business for many factors, and we just needed a way to create another crop that we felt could generate some revenue for the business. Bryan Fields: That conversation, that example you gave is so interesting. I'm thinking through the personas of your cousin, who's sitting there like, everything is ripping, we're doing really good, and now Eddie's like, we've got to reallocate the resources. But I'm sure from your other perspective, you're like, we need more space for this. And as the current price of New York is what it is, the economics make sense. But I'm sure in the back of your mind you also know it's still early — I don't want to disrupt my entire business that's been thriving just because of a short blip, but I also need to give it room to run. How do you process the decision of whether to expand, slow down, or find another partner? That is a really complicated dilemma. Eddie Brennan: Yeah. And when you grow — if you think about this, Beak & Skiff's been around for 115 years. We're celebrating our 115th year, five generations. And in three years, Heirloom got to the same revenue number that Beak & Skiff does, and now it'll surpass it by 25 or 30% more. So you think about that growth trajectory — from Beak & Skiff Research focusing on CBD to all of a sudden now we have the number one brand in New York State and terrific market share. But it consumes a lot of capital, a lot of resources across the farm, whether that's warehouse space, land, or people — going from three or four employees to over 100 employees. So it's all very exciting and it pushes us, but then you have people from Beak & Skiff who've been working there for 30 or 40 years, and now all of a sudden there's this new shiny penny across the street. For the most part it's been really good, but we've had to reframe things to people and really talk to not only our employees but educate our customers on why we're doing this. Because I could open my email right now and there are over 30 emails — anything from 'you guys are drug dealers disguised as an apple business' to 'you ruined the family business.' There are all kinds of narratives that come about, and it makes you question why you're doing things. But at the end of the day, my north star is very simple: I want to get our family business to a sixth generation, whatever that looks like. Being an apple farm, the economics would never work — if you plant an apple tree, it takes six years for that tree to return any meaningful crop at full maturity. You never start an apple orchard as a business; the economics don't make sense. I can plant a marijuana plant and harvest it in three months — those are the economics we look at. But challenging the status quo has always been something I was taught at an early age, and that doesn't mean there's not a lot of resistance along the way. We have fun with that. There are challenging conversations, but ultimately everyone's very proud of what we've accomplished. Bryan Fields: The diversification though is so crucial, because there are so many cannabis companies out there now that are looking for ways to diversify their business and hedge against the macro headwinds, and your team is able to do that naturally. But I want to go back to the growth element, because you're talking about that hockey stick, and I can imagine as you're stepping up in volume, things don't work as flawlessly as just putting it on a spreadsheet and saying let's 10x our output. I'm sure there's equipment that needs to go in, there's scale, there's SOPs. Does that work as easily as people think, or what breaks when you start to scale? Eddie Brennan: Well, it's interesting. I went to Colgate University, and I remember sitting in an economics class where they talk about your cash flow statement versus your P&L statement — you could be making money on paper, but there's no cash; actually there's negative cash, and the business requires cash. Heirloom's a perfect example of that — making money, hockey-stick growth, selling through inventory, but it requires more people, more investment, whether it's vape hardware or manufacturing space. We invested $5 million in a new warehouse production space, and it's this flywheel that requires capital. Luckily we had Beak & Skiff, an established, profitable business that's been around for over 115 years, that could help support that growth. But I'd imagine other businesses that don't have access to capital — whether from another business or family — it can get very challenging, and we continue to feel the stresses of that. But when you have a team that's dedicated and has that vision to keep going, I think we've been very fortunate. At every stage in the revenue growth cycle, things break. We saw that with Beak & Skiff to some degree as we started 1911, which is a top-ten hard cider brand nationally — that was a more gradual growth trajectory. With Heirloom it was just fast and furious and breaking things, but Mac Hubert, our president, and his management team were best-in-class, and we were able to go out and find people with experience scaling businesses. That's been one of the real successes — bringing in outside talent. Bryan Fields: How does that work, bringing in outside talent? You bring in these really established individuals from the beverage industry or CPG and then bring them into the chaos that is cannabis, and they've got playbooks that have worked successfully for those profound companies, but it's a little more reckless here, a little more creative and entrepreneurial. How do you determine which playbooks transfer and which ones you just have to evolve and relearn in cannabis? Eddie Brennan: Yeah. Well, I think one of the mistakes people make in the cannabis business is they'll look for people who are 'experts' in cannabis. There are no experts in cannabis. We've always focused on finding people with best-in-class manufacturing experience. I think that's one of the secret sauces of Heirloom — if you're a partner of ours and you own a dispensary, we're going to deliver on time, consistently. So many times in this industry you see brands deliver for a few weeks and then start missing orders or things fall off. So when we went out to hire people, we looked for people who were best-in-class in their industries — whether that's Anheuser-Busch or Procter & Gamble or wherever — people with proven skill sets and a real focus on operational excellence and the ability to deliver results. We've been able to pull a few people from Beak & Skiff who showed promise, but going outside and hiring has been the success. When people pigeonhole themselves and just look for people with cannabis experience, they miss out, because so much of the skill set is new. I look to other industries where people have proven skill sets, because at the end of the day it's just another CPG product. There are some regulatory complications and it's highly regulated, but at the end of the day, whether we're making gummies or vapes or beverages, it's about getting the product out efficiently while making sure it's quality. We've really had an eye to quality, and we learned that in the beverage industry — how important that quality was. Bryan Fields: Yeah, there's the trust element too — trust with retailers that you're going to show up with products on time, but also with consumers, that when they get a product from Heirloom they know what to expect and it'll deliver that same experience. I'm going to assume that was part of the core ethos: beverage consumers have an expectation that a drink will taste a certain way and make them feel a certain way, and you wanted that same consistency in cannabis. Were there lessons there you were easily able to apply? Was that part of the R&D process as you figured out how to make the product consistently as you scaled? Eddie Brennan: Yeah, that's such a good question, because with 1911, the scaling of that brand, we made every mistake possible — from buying the wrong equipment, to bad batches, to leaking cans, to hiring the wrong people. And Mac, our president of Heirloom, was along for the ride — that entire journey, he was with me and we saw it all. We learned so many lessons, because when we started 1911 we did the opposite — we didn't have any beverage manufacturing expertise, we tried to do it all on our own. We were growing quickly, rolling out states, getting traction with the gluten-free movement, but we had very little idea what we were doing. We started in 750 ml bottles, went to 12 oz bottles, and then cans, and at every point there were issues, but we learned so many things along the way. A perfect example is Yanfe, who's our head of beverage manufacturing across Heirloom and Beak & Skiff — he does our beverage development. Ten years ago we wanted to create a pumpkin hard cider because everyone was doing it — pumpkin beer was big. The way we did that was we bought pumpkin puree and put it into the tank of cider, not understanding that puree doesn't dissolve into cider. It was chunky — it just didn't translate at all, the product was terrible. Today, when we're making any type of cider, we have a ten-person tasting panel, we meet every week, we have SOPs in place, we have experts tasting the product, we have labs. All of those lessons we eventually translated over to Heirloom, because we knew to make a beverage product the right way we needed things like tunnel pasteurization, a lab, tasting panels — all of those things. We started Heirloom at that level because we'd learned so much from 1911. That's one of the secrets to our success — when the Housing Works store opened a few years ago in New York City as the first one to launch with beverage, that was so unique for an adult-use market; most adult-use markets don't have beverage as one of the leaders. But we did in New York, and we were so proud of that, and all the lessons came from Beak & Skiff and 1911. Bryan Fields: That's where those scars really come into play, right? At the moment it really stinks — you made all those mistakes — but then as you're spinning up this new beverage you're like, well, we need a checklist, we need a panel, we need to test this, here's a gate to make sure this goes through. Those are all the lessons some of these other cannabis teams are learning on the fly — they're figuring it out as they go. That's the hidden advantage sometimes people miss when they're scaling up their product categories — understanding which product to bring to market. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, for sure. There's something in the beverage manufacturing world called SQF — we make private label products for Wegmans, Aldi, and Price Chopper, and they require a high level of traceability and quality; they audit your facilities. So when we started Heirloom, we brought all of that over — we wanted to make sure we hit all those markers, like making sure our kill steps made sense and the dosing made sense. There's a big difference between an alcoholic and a non-alcoholic beverage — so much more can go wrong in a non-alcoholic beverage, because alcohol naturally kills pathogens and bacteria, whereas with a non-alcoholic beverage so much more can happen. Things like tunnel pasteurization and ensuring you're operating a sterile environment really make a difference. It's great to sell a product once to somebody, but when you want them to come back week after week, that's when quality and consistency become really important. Bryan Fields: Say a little bit more about that — for Wegmans there's internal testing your team is required to do, and it's not required here in cannabis, but your team decided this was very valuable, both in the short term and for the long-term credibility of the product. I'm sure there are expensive steps your team invested in to ensure a level of quality control in your product. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, here's an example — all of Wegmans' cold brew coffee is made at Beak & Skiff; we make it nationally for them. That's over a year-long process from 'hey, we want to make a cold brew coffee' to getting it on their shelves. There are tasting panels they conduct, quality specs, facility audits, all the checkpoints to ensure that when you buy a Wegmans product it's going to be quality and taste the same. Even today, on the shelf, they're pulling samples weekly to test that it's in spec and tastes the same. That's why anytime you buy one of their private-label products, you can trust it's best in class. We do that with Wegmans, with Aldi, with ten other grocery chains. So when we were thinking about Heirloom, we wanted the same quality level, because I've seen so many times batch-to-batch inconsistency. There's a cereal I buy all the time — I won't name it — but I've noticed recently the taste has changed, and that's really disappointing. I don't know if it's the ingredients or they're missing a step, but it's a big brand and you can taste the changes. That's not something we started with 15 years ago — it's something we evolved, and now we have a QC department and a quality department, and it's not mandatory in cannabis. Bryan Fields: Correct. Eddie Brennan: No, I mean there's GMP — good manufacturing processes — mandated in New York cannabis. It has the highest level of standards, but nowhere near the standards you'd see in other food products. I think New York State is best in class. So yeah, we take a lot of pride in it. It makes things a lot harder, but ultimately it keeps you accountable and ensures the product getting to the consumer is the best. Bryan Fields: What do you think happens in that cereal example — you tasted it and realized something had changed. What's the natural next step? Do you go rebuy that same one thinking maybe they just had a bad batch, or next time on the shelf are you reaching for a competitor? Eddie Brennan: Yeah, I think that is the risk — you go to a competitor. As the New York market's evolved in cannabis, there's more and more brands, a lot more choice. And I think one of the successes of Heirloom is that the customer understands it's quality, and from batch to batch it's going to taste the same. I don't try a lot of our competitors' products, but I can always speak to ours — not just the taste profile, but ensuring the dosing is correct, because there's a lot we learned about aluminum cans and the dosing of beverages. When we started Heirloom, we tested a lot of products — gas stations, dispensaries — and we were realizing there was a lot of inconsistency in the THC and CBD content. If it said 10 milligrams, we tested it and maybe it was 3 or 4 milligrams. That was a little concerning. What we found was the liners of the cans make a big difference — the cannabinoids can actually bind to the side of the cans, and the cans lose some potency. So we had to factor that into our process as well. That was an interesting learning. Bryan Fields: But that is the influence — when someone goes to a dispensary and sees 60 different products on the shelf, they might choose a brand for a specific reason, and depending on that experience, they might reach for another one next time. I think that's the element that sometimes gets overlooked — teams put so much emphasis on brand, packaging, and endcap influence, and then they have a misstep internally from an operational standpoint, not recognizing how critical these minute factors are to the entire experience. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, no, you're so right. I've had bad experiences with marijuana — well, everyone's had the bad brownie experience — but when you have that experience from a product you bought in a dispensary that was supposed to be at a certain level and it wasn't, I think it's really disconcerting and makes you question things. But the other thing we wanted to do — when we were starting Heirloom I still felt like there was a stigma when people walked into dispensaries, and it's a very overwhelming experience the first time — where do I even start? So we wanted Heirloom to feel like an approachable brand, something you'd be comfortable bringing to a graduation party. Maybe you're not going to light up a joint at someone's graduation party, but you could bring a beverage and that could be acceptable. We didn't want marijuana leaves screaming off the can, or even for it to be green or signal marijuana at all — we just wanted it to fit into the occasion. That's been one of the beautiful things about Heirloom and the beverage category in particular — it's destigmatized the category and made it acceptable for the mom, the grandma — I've seen so many people enjoying it, and that's been cool to see the barriers break down. Bryan Fields: Yeah, beverage has done an incredible job of slowly reducing that stigma, because you're right — you go to a backyard barbecue and my favorite thing to do is bring those beverages, because people's faces always light up — 'there's THC in here, will I get high?' And then the next question is, 'how long will it take for me to feel it?' But there's a moment where they have that beverage for the first time and they're like, 'oh, I don't have to have a brownie, I don't have to have a joint, I don't need the alcohol, which I didn't really want — I can feel nice and relaxed, and after that I'm back to normal.' Eddie Brennan: Right. Yeah, the buzz without the hangover has been really cool to see — as somebody who's dealt with the backlash of entering the marijuana business and customers upset with me because I've in theory ruined the family business, having those experiences is really cool. Bryan Fields: And I'd imagine as life changes a little more, there are people who stop drinking and lean more on the beverage from Heirloom, and think to themselves, hey, maybe Eddie didn't ruin the family business — maybe Eddie helped a lot of people kick the bad stuff and move toward a more natural product. Eddie Brennan: Yeah. I did a post a few months ago on LinkedIn about cannabis as a reverse gateway drug, and I've had a lot of people challenge me on that — I have a doctor in my life who says she has data to refute that claim. But I really have seen it in my own life — people struggling with opioids being able to lean on cannabis and work their way out of active addiction. Now, you could say you're swapping one substance for another, yes, but I do think marijuana is better than some of the other substances people are using. That's been really encouraging — to see the power of marijuana, which at its core is a medicine that can help people. So when people send me the nasty emails about the drug-dealer side of me, I think back to those, because I've never received an email from anybody who's had 1911 and said 'you changed my life' or 'it helped me in this way' — never once, with 1911. With marijuana I get that from time to time, and it's just a different feeling. So you take the good with the bad, but you feel like you're moving the category forward, whether it's Heirloom or any other marijuana product. It's good to see it moving the needle. Bryan Fields: Is the dispensary the right long-term environment for beverage products? That's a big question, considering the regulatory environment we're in right now and all the unknowns when it comes to marijuana beverages. Eddie Brennan: I think people got a taste of it not living in a dispensary. Ultimately, a dispensary is not the best place for a beverage product to be sold — dispensaries just aren't set up to display beverages. So when it made its way onto liquor store shelves in certain states, or into bars, that was really cool to see — marijuana having that moment. That said, I don't know where things are going to go in the next few months. I think right now everyone's on pause. Heirloom, as a D9 brand, was in over 12 states and expanding and doing really well, but we have a robust dispensary business in New York — we're proud of it, it's doing really well. But I think having it outside of dispensaries really allowed it to spread its wings and get to more people, and I think the more people who can experience marijuana, especially in beverage form, the better. I think ultimately it's going to do great things. Bryan Fields: Now that's coming for me. Eddie Brennan: And I own a very large alcohol company, and I've seen the sales of alcohol decline over the last several years. So I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth, because I had the luxury of playing on both sides of this, but I'd be lying if I didn't think marijuana was and is a threat to the alcohol business, because I see it in my own numbers every day. Bryan Fields: Do your alcohol relationships and partners, people you know in the space, ask you about cannabis, or do they project their perspectives, given the fact that cannabis has likely infringed on some of their consumers? Eddie Brennan: Well, I think all of my beer distributor relationships want to be able to sell marijuana beverages. Whether they're actively saying it or not, I think they want to see a path toward it coming back. I think if it does come back, it needs to be regulated — I think it got out of control. In states like New Jersey, you go into a beer depot and there's a 100-milligram 12-ounce can, and you wonder what kind of experience that customer is having. Is there even 100 milligrams in that can? You'd never want that to be somebody's first experience with marijuana — that's a bad thing. So whether you want to call them bad actors or people taking advantage of the moment, I think ultimately that's what sank the category and made regulators wake up. If it comes back, hopefully there's some regulation. I think a low-dose beverage makes a ton of sense, whether that's 3 or 5 milligrams. Right now it's kind of wait-and-see, and we'll see what 2027 brings. That said, I do feel bad — there are a lot of businesses out there that built really large companies with loyal customers who don't have a path to market come November. Bryan Fields: On one side, that could be a massive benefit for you, because you've got an established brand and business, and maybe some others don't have the opportunity to do it alone — this is where partnerships and conglomerates can come together from an ecosystem standpoint, where some relationships survive and some aspects won't make it, but that's where partnering up — only the strong survive. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, I think we'll definitely see what happens. Either way, I'm very excited about the future. In my opinion, the customer got a taste of it, and I don't know that they're aware of what's coming, and I think when it gets taken away there'll be a lot of feedback to regulators and people in the industry. So we'll wait and see what happens. Bryan Fields: Yeah, that's a weird one, especially here in New York — I would bring those beverages and it became a little more typical to acquire them, and people would say, hey, where can I buy these? And you're like, you can buy them online, except here's how it all works. And they're like, what do you mean I can't buy them online anymore? It's this weird relationship we're in here in New York. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, absolutely. It's really day to day — we try to follow what's going on in the news. Bryan Fields: Talk to me about how the future holds — we're talking about regulations internally, how hemp's going to work, the wave of the space. How do you think about Heirloom from a growth standpoint, and potentially taking a well-established brand and bringing it to other states? Eddie Brennan: Yeah, so I think about it a few ways. One, there's certainly a path for Heirloom to spread its wings and fly out of New York State and attack new markets. I think originally that plan was going to be D9, because we were able to cross state lines, and that opened up a lot of opportunities. Today, the way we look at it is we're really excited about New York State, going narrow and deep in the space and continuing to grow. I still think we're in the fourth or fifth inning of New York State — there's a lot of runway for us. I am a little concerned — there are a lot of brands that have entered New York State, and the ecosystem is filled with SKUs, the dispensary shelves are stocked. I see the category growing, but I worry about the economic viability of a lot of these brands. Ultimately, brands like Heirloom, which we consider a premium brand — we're not out there doing lots of discounting, we're doing the normal blocking and tackling in accounts — I think we'll be able to continue to grow in New York State. A state I get excited about for the future is Pennsylvania — there's a lot of green space there that hasn't entered the recreational market yet, so we're actively having those conversations. Originally I thought, okay, we could just be a New York brand and own our backyard, but we get inquiries from other states. With the federal illegality of marijuana, going to a new state requires a lot of capital and a lot of discipline, and I don't know that we want to take our eye off the ball just yet. But we're always looking for ways to grow on the 1911 side — we sell hard cider in 30 states today, we're actively trying to fill out our footprint. It's a lot easier there because we can cross state lines and keep one manufacturing hub in Lafayette, New York. That doesn't work in the marijuana space. Bryan Fields: What's so wild, thinking through it, is we just talked about how early we are here in New York, and at the same time you talked about how large a business Heirloom has grown compared to your other super-established business. And given how much room there still is to run, it's crazy to even take your eye off the ball, knowing how much green space is in front of us. And I'm sure you're aware all the competitors at the top of the charts want pieces of yours — so the moment you take your eye off the prize, they inch forward and you watch your share erode. Maybe at first there's a little to give up, but if you're trying to go deeper and wider as it opens up, you probably want to be more ruthless and tactful pushing forward, because this is the part where you establish the brand — where people all know Heirloom, and when they go to a cannabis dispensary they say, this is the one I trust, this is a great experience, and there's still so much opportunity in front of you. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, and I love the competition in New York. I think one of the fantastic things about the New York market is when you look at the top ten brands, there's a bunch of New York brands winning in New York State, and I think that's a testament to the ecosystem and how the regulations were written — it allows homegrown brands to win in their home market. That's something that makes me really proud — take Heirloom out of it, just seeing other brands do well speaks to the success of the market, and I think we're optimistic about that continuing, because we've been given the runway to do that. Bryan Fields: What about price compression? Is there any thinking internally about operating at different numbers given the fact that you expect competition to increase and margins to change? Is there a thoughtful approach to anticipating when that compression continues to happen? Eddie Brennan: Yeah, so we talk about price compression all the time, Mac and I and the team. We look at the unit economics — I think we can afford to come down a little bit, but we control our own growing, we're vertically integrated on that side of the business. But it's always a concern as price continues to drop in markets. Most brands that are going to be in New York are here today — if you look across the country at all the big brands, most have entered New York, whether through their own licensing or working on some type of contract model. I think it's always a concern looking at other states and where the market's gone. I think as long as you keep the dispensary ecosystem healthy — because that's where it all starts — as you start to see dispensaries struggling to pay brands, that's where it gets really tough. As more stores open, unless it's a place like Long Island, which is more of a cannabis desert, it's not necessarily incremental revenue for the overall market — we're spreading dollars across dispensaries, and those partnerships become more and more meaningful. So we look to go narrow and deep with partners who believe in Heirloom. We're not going to be the cheapest brand on the shelf — you're never going to see us doing 30 or 40 percent discounts. We believe in our product, we think there's a point of difference versus other products on the shelf, and we're proud of that. As price compression comes, we'll continue to navigate it, but we're prepared for it, and we'd be fools if we didn't look to other states to see where they are and where they've gone. Bryan Fields: Sure. And I love that you used the Long Island desert example, because out there it's literally crazy to think there are no dispensaries given the size of the space. I think a lot of those dispensaries are really happy with how it's rolled out so far. Eddie Brennan: I'm sure. Yeah, I think some of those dispensaries are the largest in the country. Bryan Fields: Crazy, crazy. What about taking that Wegmans approach — white-labeling or creating product from a supply-chain standpoint, given the resources and the technical capabilities and infrastructure you have? Have you expanded that portion of the business, allowing other brands that want to come to you and say, hey Eddie, you guys make a killer beverage, we want a trusted vendor? Have you brought that into the business, or thought about it? Eddie Brennan: Yeah, we originally, when we launched our marijuana space — Gen 5 Labs, which was originally called Beak & Skiff Research — our business model was we were going to have a brand called Heirloom, and then we were going to be a co-manufacturer with other companies. So when Rove came to New York State originally, and Heavy Hitters came to New York State originally, they worked with us. The challenge was, as Heirloom grew and became the number one brand it is today, we just couldn't keep up with our own in-house brand — which is a beautiful thing, we're proud that happened — and those partners have gone off to find other great companies to work with. So it's not something we're considering today, but in the future we could revisit that model. That was the strategy — if you look at our hard cider manufacturing facility, we make hard cider for seven or eight other companies nationally, and that's been a great model for us. Marijuana's a little different, because licensing comes into play, distribution gets tricky, and it's competing for a lot of resources in-house. The other thing is manufacturing pre-rolls or gummies versus manufacturing beverage — it's a lot more labor intensive, requires a lot more people, and that also challenges resources. Bryan Fields: Yeah, when I was thinking through that from a supply-chain standpoint, I always think that's a really hidden asset people don't see from the outside — the fact that you can white-label and push out other products, and expand internally from an infrastructure standpoint, which gives some space back to the apple orchard, making your cousin happy again after you took some of his space, and also brings in business. You're diversifying internally — where's the risk exposure? As the supply chain tries to grow to meet demand, there are brands that I'm sure come to you and say, Eddie, when the time is right, this could be really good. And from your standpoint, you've got the public-facing brand that does really well, you've got the infrastructure standpoint, plus risk mitigation on both sides of the farm — you've got a really structured business that can take the unknowns with the potential chaos that is cannabis regulation. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, absolutely. Bryan Fields: If you did try to expand the New York model, is there anything specifically cannabis has taught you that a different market might require? Eddie Brennan: Well, the biggest thing when you look to go to a new market is, one, do people even know who you are, and do they understand the brand? When I look back to starting 1911, every Friday night I would stand in a different Wegmans or Tops grocery store and do tastings — I'd have friends doing it too. That's the hardest thing — just convincing people your brand's worth buying. The value we offer in New York is, hey, we're a New York-grown family business, and I think that means something to people. When you look at other states, that's where it gets tricky — in order to convince people your brand is worthy in an established market, you have to spend a lot more, whether through sampling or whatever that market requires, if marketing is allowed, traditional marketing, and people on the ground building relationships. That is number one, and I think that's what Heirloom's done really well in New York — our sales team does an incredible job connecting with dispensary owners and budtenders and building those relationships, because at the end of the day people buy from people they like, and the product comes next. Going to a new market, the focus first would be how do we generate awareness — we know we have a fantastic product, but you can have a great product and no customers, and no relationships in the middle, and until you connect those it'll never work. So that's the biggest lesson we'd have to translate going to a new market. Bryan Fields: I felt that at Revelry — walking through the spaces, the team was so warm and engaging, pulling people in, and just watching that from afar you could feel that ethos you're describing in that experience, and it's really great to see. Eddie Brennan: Yeah, no, I think the team at Revelry did an incredible job, and we had this amazing, really experiential beverage moment where we had this bubble cloud that we were putting on top of all the beverages — it was all about pulling people in and getting them liquid past the lips, because I think that's the part people sometimes forget — at the end of the day, as people are walking through, they're looking for a snapshot reason to stop, or something that catches their attention, and doing something slightly different usually does that for sure. Bryan Fields: Last question. What question do you wish more people asked you? Eddie Brennan: Well, I think people underestimate the challenges of being a leader and running a five-generation family business. For me it's been the trip of a lifetime, and I've been so privileged to be in this seat and have this opportunity. I think when a family entrusts you with a five-generation legacy, it comes with a lot of pressure, but over time I've really viewed it as a privilege, and everything I do, I come at it with a lot of passion. I was raised with two incredible grandfathers. One of them, Marshall Skiff, was a third-generation leader of our family business — loved apple trees, loved being outside, loved everything about growing. He would have made an incredible master marijuana grower, but never got the opportunity — actually thought weed was evil weed, but that's a whole other story. And then I had another grandfather, Ed Brennan, who I'm named after, and he was in the '90s the CEO of Sears Roebuck Corporation, and led them through some really amazing and then challenging times. I like to think I was almost created in that lab — I had the farming experience, and then I got to watch my dad and my grandfather, who are these incredible merchants. I like to think I'm where I'm supposed to be today. I think if you had a list of seven or eight family members when I was in college, I wouldn't have even been on the list of people considered to run the family business, but here I am today, and I wouldn't be able to do it without the incredible team we've built around us. I wasn't the best student in college, but I've always loved what we've built, and I think we've had these incremental wins over the years. If you look at the business today and look back, it's incredible where we've come. But I attribute most of our success to just grit and getting through really tough situations and not giving up. So as we look to, okay, five generations, what does the sixth generation look like — I have no idea, but we're giving it our best shot to get there. Bryan Fields: I love it. So Eddie, for our listeners, if they want to get in touch, want to buy Heirloom products, where can they find you? Eddie Brennan: So you can find us in most dispensaries in New York State — Heirloom's going to be on the shelf. Definitely grab a beverage, try it — I think it's best in class, offers that consistent experience. My favorite product is our Pillow Talk gummy — I think anybody who has issues sleeping, it's amazing, super consistent, knocks you out, no hangover in the morning. But yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn, on Instagram, and we're always out in the market doing different activations and telling that family farm story. Bryan Fields: I love it. I'll link it all up in the show notes. Thanks for taking the time, this was a lot of fun. Eddie Brennan: Thank you.