Cannabis Beverages Are Bringing New Consumers Into Cannabis ft Kristin & Eric Rogers

Listen Now

Bryan Fields: Seven years ago, people were still calling us heroin dealers. And now you can order direct to consumer to your door. Most people think rapid multi-state expansion and being number one on a brand list are the primary indicators of success. Kristin, why are they wrong? Kristin Rogers: So I think particularly in cannabis, each state has its own insulated regulatory system. There's different rules, and I think a lot of people measure success as, "oh, I'm in six states" or "I'm in this many states," and that's great, but you could be in 35 states and still not be making as much money as someone in one state. I think that's one of the most interesting things about cannabis — it's hard to measure success when you're talking about moving across state lines because it's different everywhere. Eric Rogers: And just to piggyback off that real quick — I think it's even harder than that because brand can travel in some aspects, but if that consumer isn't seeing that same messaging, or if it's not being pushed out as much in the dispensaries, it might not register. You might say, "hey, well maybe we need to invest more capital dollars for growth here," but if beverages specifically aren't popular there, it might not reflect accurately. Kristin Rogers: No, that was exactly where I was going to take it — there is an element of brand, right, and building that consumer trust. That's something that's really important to us. We want that consistency as an effects-first brand, where we're trying to give consumers clear and predictable outcomes based on what experience they're trying to get. As you navigate state to state, availability of inputs changes, right? So in a new state you might need to use minor cannabinoids in that formulation to mimic the effect you're looking to get in each of our products. So it's important to be thoughtful. The packaging regulations are different — we lean in heavy on color and storytelling in our packaging, and you can't always do that in another regulated market. So you want to make sure that all of our reasons to believe for the brand are being conveyed in that packaging concept, that there's some level of continuity, so the consumer does feel like they're getting that same experience — the same way you can go buy a beer from a brewery you know, and if you buy it in Massachusetts or you buy it in New York, it's going to be the same product. That's what we're trying to achieve, making sure we're driving that consistency, so when consumers see Levia, they have that trust and confidence in a high-quality product. Eric Rogers: Here's a great example — we are going to launch our Drink Drops soon in New Jersey. We can sell a thousand milligrams of Drink Drops in Massachusetts, and we can only sell a hundred in New Jersey, and we want people to have that same experience. It's less in the bottle, but we want to make sure that if someone is from Massachusetts and they go to New Jersey, the dosing is different — are they going to read the packaging and make sure they're looking at that? Consumers aren't used to having to do that, so it makes it really hard. Bryan Fields: Does that influence the states you want to go into? Like, okay, from a product roadmap, here's where we feel like we deliver really well — our consumers like 10, 20 milligrams, but this state has caps, or this state is selling more 100-milligram products. Does that influence if you'd decide to go into a new state — here's where we think our brand integrity travels best? Eric Rogers: Yeah, absolutely. And even to take it a step further, we really focus on markets as we're looking to identify our next state — where is social consumption happening, where are consumers gathering? As a beverage brand, we're trying to be a social cannabis company. That's what we want to be. We want to be in those social situations. So looking at a state like Maryland, looking at a state like New Jersey that already has this sort of lounge framework set up — how can we partner with them to continue to shepherd the brand message, so that we're connecting with that audience in an authentic way? That helps as we carve out our niche of what our product is in the broader marketplace. Every new market is heavy flower market, always, that product set comes out, and as you see those markets come on and who the customer is in those markets, you're seeing more of these affluent markets coming on demand for more premium cannabis products. So how do we meet that need through the brand framework we've created for Levia? Bryan Fields: Who is a drink customer? Eric Rogers: So our drink customer skews female, it's like 60/40 skewing female. It's a wide swath. We do really well with a younger audience because that audience is not drinking — they're looking for that replacement. Being zero calories, zero sugar is an incredible positioning point, since most cannabis drinks on the market do have some calorie content or sugar content. So it's very clean, and it really aligns with someone looking for that healthy, active lifestyle. That's where we try to create those effects — Achieve, Celebrate, and Dream — that really help fit into that lifestyle and create continuity for a consumer: "oh, I'm going to get stuff done, I've got to mow the lawn, I'll have an Achieve." "Oh, I'm going to my friend's house for the Super Bowl, we're hanging out, that's Celebrate." "Oh, we have a date night, we want to relax and laugh, we're going to rest and recharge with Dream." So it's thinking through that entire process — as someone who's drunk alcohol his whole life and has leaned into beverage because it's something I found socially acceptable, it's so easy to bring these beverages and people are trying them. But then watching people's perspectives change, understanding that there is a replacement — and I know it's popular now that millennials are drinking less and less alcohol, but they're turning to something. Everyone's pushing toward weed, but beverages specifically fit that natural niche — when you show up somewhere and you have something, smoking has that bad connotation, but beverages have a more acceptable feeling. Hey, try one, have a little sip, see how it goes. Bryan Fields: Exactly. Eric Rogers: And that's part of it, right? Smoking obviously has its place in the cannabis industry, but it is alienating — you have to remove yourself from the social situation. You're creating a circle with other people, but you're not at the party. So a product that leans into that social aspect, that's approachable and normal — you're just replacing alcohol with something else and still getting that anticipated effect. Kristin Rogers: Well, that's a true adult behavior, right? Whether that's coffee in the morning or alcohol in the evening, we're used to drinking something with an anticipated effect and dosing it to our own tolerance. There are folks who have four or five shots of espresso every day — I can't handle that, but I can handle 100 milligrams of THC. It's different in each of those environments. So that's what we're really excited about — in those moments, you don't have to leave, you don't have to interrupt whatever that social experience is; it can really be something that brings you together. And I think that speaks to older generations too — 60-plus is also a huge demographic for us. Those are some of my favorite conversations, because everyone has a weed experience — whether they were born in the '60s, or they had a terrible brownie experience in the '80s and never want to do it again. I think the consistency is really fun for them, and having something else — especially having a drink in their hand — is a really important factor. Bryan Fields: Is there a misconception you see most, when an inexperienced person reaches for a beverage — a common question they have, like "will this do X for me"? Eric Rogers: There's definitely an education curve to it. You saw those very early beverage pioneers we were on the heels of — they weren't even using emulsifiers, they were putting oil into water, and it was "shake well before consuming," and that wasn't the best experience. When you have that experience, it's more similar to an edible — you're waiting for your body to digest it, waiting for your liver to metabolize it, anywhere from 45 minutes to two hours. Bryan Fields: It's always at least three hours for me. It's insane — I'm that classic person who takes some, and it hasn't kicked in, hasn't kicked in, and I keep pushing it. Eric Rogers: Whereas with beverages, now with the technology and emulsification, it's bypassing your liver, creating a water-soluble infusion experience, so the onset is much faster and much more predictable. But that also creates a more predictable offset — if you took too much cannabis from a brownie, you could be locked in for the next 10 to 12 hours. With a bunch of drinks, the half-life of THC in your body puts you at about a three-hour experience — even if you overdo it, within about three hours you're coming back down to earth. Because of the control you have, if all of a sudden you feel like you've had too much, you just put the drink down — you don't have to commit to the full dose, the way if you eat a gummy and don't feel anything, you have a second gummy, and now you feel them both and you weren't ready for that. Taking away that inconsistency is critical to building consumer trust and attracting legacy consumers who want to find a way to participate in the cannabis industry again that's not smoking. Bryan Fields: Are they stackable in a way — when I drink them I'm usually around 10 or 20 milligrams, and I have one and then a second one, and before I want that peak feeling, I never quite feel like I get there. What's the approach — are they stackable, and if so, should I increase the milligrams on the first one, or have the second one be higher? Eric Rogers: Yeah, when you're stacking or layering your cannabis experience — that could extend to food too, right, I also work on a hot sauce brand — not all of your milligrams are necessarily coming from the drink. Most experienced consumers know their dose, "I want 10 milligrams over this," so working that total milligram amount into the meal throughout that meal creates a much more well-rounded experience. It's not about giving that boost right away — it's, okay, if I'm at 10, how do I layer that in? It becomes much more of a ride through the meal rather than a peak and come-down. And it speaks to scene and setting too, as we're moving into more social situations — you'll feel highs and peaks based on the setting and company you're in. Sharing a meal is obviously an intimate, social experience. Kristin Rogers: I also think once markets mature a bit more, you'll have more options for multi-dosing — if you know you're a 10-milligram consumer, that's your perfect point, five is going to layer very differently than 10. Five is great for newbies, and for people like me who somehow still can't get past all these years later — five to ten is still my sweet spot. I feel great at about 45 minutes with a five, that's my peak. But for someone like Eric, five doesn't touch him. So being able to have a 10 or maybe even a 25 and have that same experience is really exciting for us, the way we do with alcohol — I know exactly when I should have that second glass, and I want people to have that experience with our products too. That's the best feeling — everyone knows that first drink where you start to feel really good. For me with a beverage, I don't really feel high, but I start to feel relaxed and smiling more, not as agitated by the chaos of my kids around me. It's like, oh, maybe this is working a little faster than I thought. I think that's the element that's most surprising to people — when they try it, they say, "I don't feel high, I feel relaxed, euphoric, calm." Those to me are the benefits most people are seeking from a consumption drink, whether that's alcohol or cannabis. Eric Rogers: Yeah, we're not trying to mess people up. That's the most important piece — we want people to enjoy the experience, and quite frankly I get really excited because I'm also hydrating at the same time. Making sure people have a good experience and want to come back for more is really important. Bryan Fields: I think what's been very special about beverages is that even if people graduate to other products, it's possible beverage brought them in, because it hits faster, you get a better understanding of your dosage pretty quickly, and then figure out what you want to try next. Eric Rogers: Yeah, beverage is like the category opener. If you were uncomfortable with cannabis for a bunch of years, you could try a beverage and be like, "this is not what I experienced at all." Bryan Fields: I think there are a lot of people who maybe are still on the sidelines, and then beverages open the door for them — "wow, this is way different than I remembered when I had the brownie experience," or the bad weed experience one time smoking someone's pot you probably shouldn't have, given your long time off from the plant. I think that's the element that creates the most curiosity, and that's where the dispensary maybe isn't the best outlet for them, because those consumers probably don't shop there. And given the rise of hemp beverages, this is where the whole game has really changed. Eric Rogers: Yeah, we're really excited about the opportunity in hemp beverage to really create a halo effect — to break through that awareness problem, to be able to educate consumers. There are way fewer restrictive regulations on how we can market ourselves. We know this is a challenging transition for a lot of brands to make, but beverage is really driving that conversation. We are a regulated brand first — we invested in the Massachusetts market, we have a facility here, we support that market. Our facility currently produces more than a third of all the drinks in Massachusetts. We're not going anywhere from a regulated perspective. But with hemp, the opportunity to connect with that broader audience and educate — we're hoping we can move things in a direction where hemp beverage is the low-dose side, the five-and-under market, and the regulated market has the multi-serve, serving a different audience. So depending on what you're looking to do, we solve for that now in the regulated space with our Drink Drops — it's a secondary product, like a cocktail bitter, tastes like nothing but goes right into whatever mocktail you have. It's choose your own adventure. We've formulated it at 5 milligrams in 0.25 milliliters, so not a lot of liquid to infuse those drinks. If you're a higher-tolerance consumer and want a couple of 25-milligram drinks, we're only putting about a milliliter and a quarter in there to get that 25-milligram drink. We're trying to create flexible drink formats to make them approachable for different consumer segments, whether that's spiking an existing drink like our seltzer, or creating your own mocktail or infused beverage on demand. Bryan Fields: Can you give a little more clarity on that? I'm envisioning kind of like a squeeze pouch in my pocket that I pull out and drop into my water at a restaurant. Eric Rogers: Yeah, this is almost more like a bitters bottle — a small bottle, looks like a tincture bottle, comes with a measured dropper, so 5 milligrams is the smallest amount you can measure at 0.25 milliliters. Yes, it's portable, meant to be with you. We continue to shrink those formats down so they're more portable in those moments. The experience you just described is common — when we go to dinner with friends, everyone's like, "hey, hit me with a little dose," whatever drink they've got, get the evening started. And at home it's like, "I'm going to make a sangria, mix some fruit juices, cut up some fruit," and I can dose it at the batch level and say, "here you go, now everybody can have a little infused mocktail." Bryan Fields: Going back to what you said about the consistency aspect — is having a centralized facility really valuable in order to have that QA/QC all in one site, versus having partners and different facilities manufacturing the same product? Because you need really, really tight QA/QC to have a consistent experience, and that's not easy to do. Pepsi doesn't have 18 different facilities across all the different states — they've got one facility they produce out of and then ship out. Is that really important to hone in on, to have that consistent experience? Eric Rogers: Yeah, I think having the ability to do that here at home in Massachusetts has given us the leeway to formulate so we can replicate it almost like a Coke or Pepsi model, where we have a base formulation that we know meets our Achieve, Celebrate, or Dream effects. Controlling that was really important to us — we have a full CO2 extraction lab on site, so we're sourcing single strains, working through that supply chain, getting the flower in-house, extracting it, getting full-spectrum oil out, pulling all those cannabinoids, the minors, then making it water-soluble, then infusing drinks. That supply chain is really critical, so when we go to a new market and, say, that market only has distillate available — well, we have formulations based on historical data of what levels of minor cannabinoids we can bring in to maintain consistency, so when we go to that other market, here's our emulsification concentrate, the same way Coke and Pepsi send concentrate. We have specs and parameters so that no matter the market, we're able to replicate that because we have our secret sauce that goes into all the drinks to meet that consumer experience. Bryan Fields: But that was probably a learned lesson the hard way. Eric Rogers: Oh, absolutely. We knew we wanted control over the supply chain and the quality of inputs coming in. When we launched Levia, there were very few manufacturing partners — you couldn't buy a liter of oil for less than $35,000 to $40,000, and that just doesn't work, even though we stretch it putting it into 5-milligram drinks. To have control over that, source high-quality inputs, and get high-quality outputs — to quote one of the best pitchmen out there, Papa John's: better ingredients, better pizza. When we're able to source better flower and negotiate that with our supply chain partners, we get richer extracts on the other end that create that consistent, more premium consumer experience. Bryan Fields: What year was Levia started? Eric Rogers: We started at home in February of 2017. We had our first proof of concept in 2018 on the beverage front, exploring seltzers and, candidly, coffee and tea, as the three most-consumed liquids on the planet. Back then people were laughing us out of the room when we said we wanted to drink our cannabis. But we officially launched in the regulated market in February of 2021. Bryan Fields: And one could argue the world has changed five times over since then — you've seen COVID, you've seen your brand successfully exit and now come back into it, you've seen the rise and absolute explosion of, which I can only imagine, one day you envisioned direct-to-consumer might be a real thing — but now here we are in 2026, and not only is this real, it has real opportunity given the unknown framework coming up in November, which has to be considered, but also probably just another element of saying, hey, we're built for this, we understand the endurance this takes, we understand how to be flexible and nimble to anticipate challenges but also pivot when needed. Eric Rogers: Absolutely. We're really grateful to be celebrating five years in market this month — an incredible accomplishment. As you said, we partnered with a multi-state operator to try to bring this to the moon, market conditions changed, we had the opportunity to bring it back, dovetailing into the broader hemp beverage opportunity. It's a really exciting opportunity — 2026 is going to be a really transformational year for this brand. Bryan Fields: How about mixing alcohol and cannabis beverages — is that something you've looked into, something you'd recommend? What's the approach there? Eric Rogers: Every consumer is different on this one, though I'll defer to Kristin, as she's the licensed substance abuse counselor in the room, by way of background. Kristin Rogers: We can't do it legally yet. I think if anyone is going to do it, it's got to be super low dose, because the combination of alcohol at high levels and THC at high levels is just not a good effect. I don't know many people who've gotten very drunk and very high at the same time who had a great experience — they're just not really meant for each other. However, low doses of both also seem to work well for me personally, but as Eric said, everyone reacts wildly differently to both. I don't necessarily see that becoming a thing, because the outcomes can include vomiting and other things people experience when they have too much of both. What I think is really important is normalizing cannabis beverages and being allowed to sell both cannabis and alcoholic beverages in the same place, which up until this point most regulated social-consumption situations aren't really allowing yet. It doesn't give the consumer all their options, especially now that younger generations aren't drinking at all — you're losing that customer at a bar or restaurant if you can't sell both. I think there are legitimate ways to do this, and the education piece matters — seven years ago people were still calling us heroin dealers, and now you can order direct-to-consumer to your door. So here we are in this whole new world. I'm hopeful that once people understand how to use both cannabis and alcohol in their own ways, it'll seem much less scary to regulators to offer both options in establishments. Bryan Fields: From an educational side, given all the complexities we just spoke about that your team has to handle — obviously you have to do education, marketing — but whose responsibility is it to educate the regulators about this? Kristin Rogers: I mean, it's 100% us. Massachusetts has had a lot of changes, and I'm excited about some of the proposed changes ahead — they're looking at allowing hemp in liquor stores at lower doses, and multi-serving doses in dispensaries, which I think would be the perfect compromise: you're allowing liquor stores to keep making money on younger generations, but you're also allowing us in dispensaries where, if someone goes in, they're often looking for higher doses. We've been out there talking to politicians and people whose job up until now hasn't been to learn about weed — teaching them about cannabis and the positive research going on has been really enlightening and, I think, less scary for people. So I think it is our job as a brand to help people understand this isn't scary — the CDC website still says no one has died from cannabis, and there's this lack of understanding from years of it not being available. Eric Rogers: I love this piece of it — we still have a long way to go. We have this facility to show people how the sausage is made, to demystify it, to show them the consistency in dosing, our processes for consistent dosing format, that our testing is spot-on every time, exactly where we expect it to be. Bringing Congress members through the facility to show them what we're doing, how it looks — "oh, this looks like a brewery" — contextualizes it for them, and they start to understand this is different, there are ways to move this forward. It always goes back to that conflict with smoking — there's a place for that, but it's the smoking consumers who drove that market forward in the early days. So as we look at more social places to do this, that's a conflict in Massachusetts — we've been smoke-free since the '80s, so taking a step back is really hard. So it's inviting people in, this is a social format you're used to, similar to alcohol, similar to what you get in a bar setting, and inviting people to take a tour, see the equipment running, see how we do everything, helps educationally, showing we're trying to be more premium products, a more premium process, representing the industry in this format. Bryan Fields: I love that you guys are taking it on the chin and saying, it's up to us to do that. But the challenge then, from a regulatory standpoint, is they're used to drinking and driving from an alcohol standpoint, and I'm sure they're asking, how does this affect driving? Where does the line end on your responsibilities as an operational brand versus understanding the effects of drinking and driving? Eric Rogers: For us, when we look at the research, this goes back to those stark differences between alcohol and cannabis. When you're drinking alcohol, your inhibitions are lowered — you feel empowered that you can do things, your brain doesn't say no, I can't drive home, it says, I can drive home and drive twice as fast so I'll be home faster. That's a core issue with alcohol and driving — it impairs you and lowers your inhibitions, changing your decision-making. Cannabis impairs you, but it doesn't lower your inhibitions — it actually makes you more aware of them. When you look at the research, folks consuming cannabis only are less likely to take risky behavior — that's why the classic stoned driver is driving 5 miles an hour down the road. There's that education piece — yes, these are similar in format and consumption, but their effects are wildly different, going back to how it interacts in your body. We have an endocannabinoid system present everywhere except up the brainstem, syncing with our appetite, mood, and all of that. So it's education — yes, these are similar, but the way they impact decision-making is wildly different. Bryan Fields: Yeah, and I'm guilty of that 5-miles-an-hour thing myself. But the challenge is, you have a bunch of these drinks, you feel really good, the onset is quick, and then driving feels like no issue. I can only imagine, from a regulator standpoint, why they'd say we love the brand, we understand what you're saying, but where's the limit? I wonder how they do that research, because how do we ensure safety, how do we ensure people aren't pushing the limit, how do you test somebody for sobriety, because 100 milligrams for you, Eric, is different than 100 milligrams for Kristin. That's a really difficult balance to put a number to. Kristin Rogers: This is where we come back to the mixing of alcohol and cannabis — it's really hard to say there's a valid way to test for someone being too impaired to drive on cannabis alone. But bring alcohol into the mix, and you get the same effects you normally get with alcohol, but maybe heightened, while also getting the effects of cannabis, which might also be telling you it's not the best idea to drive right now. I think this is where lawmakers have the biggest concerns with mixing. But we've known anecdotally for a long time that using cannabis first lowers your ability to drink more, and recently — I wish I'd brought it, I printed it out — I saw a news feed about research in other countries about cannabis lowering your craving for alcohol. So having Levia first, you're not going to drink as much. I'm excited for law enforcement and regulators to actually get some of this research, because I think it'll inform people more. Bryan Fields: Yeah, and I've found that when I have a THC beverage first, I always have less alcohol, versus the other way, where if I have a stiff drink, maybe I have a second one and then the beverage. I wonder why that is — maybe it's the inhibitions thing, like I could do another one and drive like a race car, which again isn't the right idea. Bryan Fields: What do you say for consumers who've had two drinks and then want to try a THC beverage — would you recommend against it? If it's their first or second time, does that matter? At a Super Bowl party, my buddy had a few drinks and wanted to try one, and I encouraged him not to, because I didn't want him to mask what he was feeling from alcohol with THC. Was that the right approach, or would it have been fine for him to try it there? Eric Rogers: I think you made the right recommendation, especially for a first-time consumer — you want to know what that impact is on your body. You're used to alcohol, and when you consume alcohol then cannabis, it can just feel like an extension of it versus a different effect, depending on the type of cannabis product — could be more cerebral, or way more body, vastly different experiences. We as adult consumers are used to single-substance psychoactives — caffeine, nicotine, alcohol — cause and effect. There are hundreds of cannabinoids in the cannabis plant, and we're extracting all of them out, giving you a full-spectrum experience. That's a much more dynamic experience than the average consumer is even used to. So especially with a first, second, or third-time experience, you want to understand how it's going to interact with your body, understand your dose, how 5, 2.5, or 10 milligrams affects you. Back to the inhibitions point — if you've had a couple of stiff cocktails and have one and still feel good, you might drink more, and you might not realize it, and that's where you might get into overconsumption on the cannabis side. Mixing high doses of both is not a good time — it can be very disorienting for people who've never experienced those two dynamic substances together. Kristin Rogers: Yeah, we do not want people to have a bad experience, especially the first time. You definitely made the right call. Bryan Fields: I'm going to tell my mom — have a THC beverage first, then go to the wine. Bryan Fields: What about cannabinoids, like with edibles there's the trifecta, mixing different cannabinoids — does that work the same with beverages, or is it different given body chemistry? Eric Rogers: Yeah, it works the same. We're basically taking that full-spectrum oil and encapsulating it — not to oversimplify, but cannabis doesn't like water, so we create a new molecule, one side loves oil, one side loves water, with a certain particle size so it kicks in quickly and consistently. That's our secret sauce. Whatever those minor cannabinoids are — THC, CBD — those are the keys that unlock your endocannabinoid system to let all those minor cannabinoids flow through and give you that full effect, the entourage effect everyone talks about. Bryan Fields: As a low-dose consumer myself, I notice very quickly when it's only THC — I feel like the existence of other cannabinoids is so important, it's what nature intended. What does the existence of them make you feel like versus straight THC? Kristin Rogers: When I have straight THC, I get a little more racy, a bit of that paranoia thing, the stigma people have about cannabis. I definitely don't feel the same as when I have a strain given to me the way nature intended, with the soft landing of other cannabinoids. And what's exciting is we're learning more every day about the cannabinoids surrounding THC and what they do and don't do for you. This is a really fun time because we're learning why that is, why those exist in the plant to begin with. We think that disparity — smoking and traditional THC-only edibles versus full spectrum — is part of why smoking continues to dominate as a behavior, because you're getting the full effect as you're smoking, all those cannabinoids converted in real time. So by taking a full-spectrum approach, how do we create an experience that's most like that, in a healthier way for consumers? Bryan Fields: How do you communicate all that complexity on a can to a consumer? They're looking at packaging, then milligrams probably next — where's the balance between fair, clean, beautiful packaging that sells well, and communicating those finer details? Eric Rogers: Part of it is we have a certain regulatory framework we have to work within — how do you translate that to execution? You need directions for use — on a drink, I'm not just going to tell you "open can and drink." We tell you a little story on the side about what to expect, giving you that predictable outcome. Right on the front of the can there's a badge with the effect it's going to be, a color that corresponds to that effect, and it tells you what the anticipated outcomes are going to be — you're going to rest and recharge, feel active and alert, feel social and relaxed. We're trying to help frame for consumers what that experience is going to be, from the flavor profile to the milligram strength, using storytelling, infusing fun and brand personality into the packaging, rather than just "drink can, wait 45 minutes before a second." We say, you'll open this up and within the next 15 to 20 minutes you're going to feel this restful, peaceful feeling, and if you're new to it, go slow, drink half a can — communicating the value proposition through packaging, since that's the billboard in the person's hand. Kristin Rogers: I'll say it's also extremely important to invest in education for budtenders. They're the first line, and people trust them, especially if they haven't had a cannabis experience before. Helping budtenders understand the difference between products is really fun, because people come from all sorts of different industries and backgrounds. Educational posters in the back rooms, events for budtenders only, to learn about your product — we're the only ones making a full-spectrum drink in Massachusetts, so helping them understand why this might be a good opportunity for a first-time consumer is really important, so we get people to come back. Bryan Fields: I don't know if I've ever read the side of a can — I've just reached into the fridge, cracked it, started drinking, happy, having a good time. Maybe now I should spend more time reading those cans, because there are probably nuanced details that are critical for understanding. Kristin Rogers: We do get some high-dose consumers who still buy our beverage because they get the minor cannabinoids and it hits them differently, and they enjoy that. So that education piece and really learning about it is really helpful too. Bryan Fields: Why do you think everything in the cannabis industry takes three to five times longer than expected? Eric Rogers: I think because there's only so much in your control. You look at a new market coming online, and typically the regulatory body itself is brand new — they're a startup in themselves, so you're only as good as the weakest startup, and when you have to work within the framework of the government to be a startup within that, it's hard. We were the first drink to launch east of Colorado in a regulated market — since hemp hadn't really come on yet — in 2021, and it was a lot to partner with regulators about what drinks even meant. Everything up until that point was entirely weight-based, with a plus-or-minus 10% rule, so if I had a package of 15 pounds of flower, I could be off by a pound and a half and it's still fine — that's like a six-pack out of a case, and they'd say no, you have to buy that for full price right now. So working with regulators to evolve how they were measuring the industry into more unit-based economics versus all weight-based, because they were even trying to limit the number of units on a metrc tag, since one can is the equivalent of 3.55 one-gram joints. So when I have a case, they'd say wait, you can't have all those. It's working within that framework to demystify it. We're very lucky the CCC worked really well with us in the beginning, because they could see it too — like, oh, vault size, we were originally going to have to fit all our drinks into these tiny cages, and it's a big product, too hard. So little things like that were really helpful, and we're still grateful they were willing to work with us on that. Bryan Fields: Does alcohol have to deal with any of those? Eric Rogers: No, absolutely not. But that's part of doing something that's federally illegal but legal in your state, and no one else has done it before — so fail forward in those moments, and try to use the regulatory framework to your benefit. Drinks are big, we don't fit into this model, we also need to ship pallets of these, when in the early days our average order size was 100 cases — that was until they realized how big 100 cases was and their vault couldn't fit that. Our manufacturing floor, you have to go through three or four limited-access points before you even get to it, it's at the center of the facility, with 60 cameras in the building — why doesn't this qualify as a vault, why can't I just store drinks on a pallet? It's working through the common-sense stuff as you contextualize what you're doing. But it all leads to everything taking longer, especially when you're doing something new, because there's only so much inside your control. You have to learn patience if you don't have it. Bryan Fields: That's a really good answer, even though deep down you're probably really frustrated a lot of the time, because common sense is never really the leading decision-maker in this industry. Eric Rogers: Yeah, still frustrating, we still get used to it. But I remind myself we get to work in an industry that until recently was completely federally illegal, a Schedule I drug, and that was the cost of doing business in that industry, to be a pioneer, to move the industry forward, to normalize, to destigmatize, to put these products out. That's the cost of it. If anyone asks what the number one skill you need in cannabis is, it's perseverance — just not giving up, not panicking but pivoting, based on the ever-changing regulatory environment. If you panic at every moment, you're frozen, but if you can pivot and move in a new direction and continue to ebb and flow with the framework, you'll continue to survive and, dare I say, thrive. Bryan Fields: Great quote. Last question — what question do you wish more people asked you? Kristin Rogers: That's a good question. I think everyone assumes we're all rich, because this is federally illegal and it seemed like there was this big boom. No — very few people have made a lot of money in this industry so far, and I think that would be helpful for people to know, because as we're federally regulating and starting to talk about this, everyone's asking for money. Everyone's asking, could we maybe take one step at a time, back up, and allow us to continue to make some money first so we can invest appropriately in marketing and all the things we should be doing. Bryan Fields: I can imagine the people asking for those things just don't understand the nuances of how 280E works, and how spinning up in different states, and understanding all these outrageous rules and regulations your team has to abide by in order to play the game — those are non-negotiables, that's what it takes to get started. Kristin, Eric, for our listeners who want to get in touch and learn more, where can they find you? Eric Rogers: www.drinklevia.com. We're just starting our new website, so by the time this goes out it'll be live. We get all the info requests, so if you want to reach out, it comes right to Kristin and me every time. We can each be reached — I'm eric@levia.buzz and Kristin is kristin@levia.buzz. If there are any questions or collaboration opportunities, we're always open to those. Bryan Fields: Thanks for taking the time, this was a lot of fun. Kristin Rogers: Thank you so much, really appreciate it.